Kitten
Member
Kitten

I refuse to accept this new series until you get yourself a proper ruffle shirt, Jim.

mhollow
Member
mhollow

Thanks for making this show! The most minor of minor quibbles about the music. The video cut off one note before the last tonic chord resolved, leaving me feeling twitchy. It would have been nice if the video could have lasted about a second longer to hit that chord and let it finish.

Octopus Grift
Member
I feel like it is a lot easier to make games harder than to make them easier (in the context of being someone who playing the game.) Not using the most optimal items or moves is an easy way to make your game harder. Pokemon is a super easy game, small children beat it, it also has a crap ton of challenges that can make it a very hard game (nuzlock being the tip of the iceberg.) There are runs that people do of dark souls that make my playthough look like child’s play. I feel like a lot of… Read more »
Sleepy Will
Member
Sleepy Will

Exactly – Doing a run in thief “lytha style” or “Ghost style” is a significant achievement. Completing thief, well you can easily circle strafe every enemy and kill them if you so desire, and waltz through the level.

But you never hear these people talking about games with a wide difficulty spread, they have a lazer focus on the high bar to entry – which I can only conclude means that the high bar to entry is all that is important.

Benj
Member
Benj

I don’t get the complaints about “participation awards”.

I ran the London Marathon earlier this year in under 4 hours and was really happy with my participation medal… even though people who took nearly twice as long got the same thing.

I’m pretty confident that people who finished in 2:30 also didn’t begrudge me getting a medal for being nearly an hour an a half slower than them either.

Anton
Member
Anton

Now all I can think about is those first-finishers standing on the sidelines after finishing and actively mocking the people taking a longer time.

‘Cause that’s pretty much what’s going on here.

Chris
Member
It’s almost like your sense of accomplishment is for yourself and not based on being able to lord it over someone ‘lesser’ than you. Soulsborne and Cuphead fans who are so bothered by the idea of anyone else finishing their game in a less challenging mode might want to think about that. Taking your value from what you’ve done is a lot more satisfying and stable than only being able to get value from mocking others. And it’s far less likely to lead you down a path of becoming a toxic shit head like some of the commenters Jim quotes… Read more »
mth
Member
mth

Finishing in a marathon is an accomplishment, regardless of the time. When I hear “participation award”, I’m thinking of rewards that are earned just by showing up. If everyone who was at the starting line got the same medal, regardless of how far they ran, it would be meaningless.

MM
Member
MM

“Plebs”? hahaaha could this have been more perfect? I hope you don’t have to tweak the comments, Jim.. =)

GetGudOrDie
Member
GetGudOrDie
Hi Jim. Really like your parody on gamers who like the smell of their own farts. Even my user name is a sort of a homage. Regarding some creative feedback to your show. Could you consider adding some more encentricities to your character. I liked it in a previous ep where you ran of stage with a giggling shriek. Also emperors apparently wrap part of their cape in a swooping action to cover face (below eyeline) in digust. And i dont know how, but perhaps a cheeky bottom shot as you walk away from camera (not every ep). Lastly, Tarquin… Read more »
RCfalcon
Member
RCfalcon

The thing is, as bad as this comment was, just try to imagine what an unbearable douche someone like this must be in real life. There’s no way they only act like this about videogames.

Sleepy Will
Member
Sleepy Will
He is making a point, somewhere in his rant – but he does rather spoil it with his tone – his point seems to be that putting work into something can be very rewarding, we all recognise this, I’m sure – the chinese term “Kung Fu” actually doesn’t mean much about fighting, it translated to this idea that working hard at soemthing is fulfilling. And he’s right, to a point – but the converse point is obviously that he has narrowed the concept of video games to only what he finds fun. He enjoys “kung fu” – or working hard… Read more »
Sleepy Will
Member
Sleepy Will

Wow, ok, I just went off on one didn’t I 😀

Aotrs Commander
Member
Aotrs Commander
Actually, I find it refreshing to see someone else being nearly as verbose as I often am (see a reply about six or seven below this one for example!) I concur that under the arrogance, there is something resembling a point. I am the very antithesis of a Dark Souls sort of fellow in computer gaming (the sort heretic who save scums, plays nothing harder than normal and ofen easy and rtefuses to “git gud” to to “staiy badd”), but (most of!) the tabletop games I play require a level of engagement that might be considered comparable. I.e., they are… Read more »
MuddyScarecrow
Member

“Not everything is for you” Uh…yeah. No shit. Your rant should have ended right there. Not everybody wants to invest in the electronic equivalent of a second job. They already have one job. And then he proceeds to gloat about how he plays miniature gaming. Something that DEFINITELY isn’t for everyone. Ultimately this one just left me staring blankly at the screen because it was five minutes of him saying basically nothing. I didn’t understand a goddamn word. But then again that may just be that I’m a console peasant. Anything’s possible! =D

Anton
Member
Anton

There’s nothing to understand, he’s blowing himself. Like everyone else the Duke channels.

Sperium3000
Member

The Dukes of Hazard?

MuddyScarecrow
Member

The Dukes of Haphazard Logic

MuddyScarecrow
Member

Agreed. It’s very easy to get confused by somebody who doesn’t have a point.

Greene Scott
Member
Greene Scott

Wait does magnetizing have to do with Table Top Gaming? I’ve played some Warhammer 40k (Tau Empire), LOTR and Warhammer Historical as a kid and I can’t recall magnets being a thing.

MuddyScarecrow
Member

Fucking magnets. How do they work?

Sleepy Will
Member
Sleepy Will
Ironically, they’re for the casual tabletop gamer, so they can switch weapons or loadouts on a mini. It’s for the more casual side (and be aware, unlike the comment writer in the video, I see no insult in the term – quite the opposite!) because it lets you play with different army/gang/whatever compositions before you settle on the loadout you desire. A bit later on it lets you switch loadouts or composition to face certain opponants before your mini collection is complete, and you have a different mini for the new loadout. The only reason people move away from magnets… Read more »
Aotrs Commander
Member
Aotrs Commander
Actually there are several uses, though, I imagine you might not have run across them if your only exposure to wargaming was GW. (Sidenote: GW and dervivatives are frequently regarded a bit like the AAA industry by a fair chunk of wargames, I should note…! There is a reason you never[1] see GW as an official presense at wargames shows outside of their own official conventions in the UK; they do not often play well with the other boys and girls.) Anyway, back to my actual point. Off the top of my head I know magnets are sometimes used by… Read more »
GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine
Jim, it might be a good idea for you to go back and watch your perfect pasta sauce episode. This whole bit is based on the idea that it’s somehow wrong to value difficulty in games, and that games should all be made “more accessable” by including variable difficulties for different people. That’s exactly the thing as you argue so vehemently against when it means changing games in order to chase the widest available market. And yes, adding difficulty settings does mean changing the game, some games do actually rely on difficulty and not just difficulty that can be reasonably… Read more »
phantomrachie
Member
phantomrachie
games can be hard sure, but there is no moral high ground in being able to play harder games and a hard game adding an easy mode doesn’t ruin the enjoyment for those people who wish to play it as intended. A person can like the esthetic or story of a game and want to play it, even if they find the gameplay difficult. Horizon: Zero Dawn has a story mode, that story mode doesn’t take away the achievement of finishing the game on the highest difficulty, it allows players who found the combat difficult on any level to experience… Read more »
MuddyScarecrow
Member

Sorry but no. Adding a new difficulty mode is NOT the same thing as heavily focus testing something to be another First Person Shooter nobody asked for.

GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine

Please feel free to explain why something that takes developer time and money to implement that they might not like doing because it doesn’t match their creative interest is materially different from adding a multiplayer mode to Spec Ops.

“Every game needs difficulty modes” is as facile and wrong as every game needing multiplayer or co-op and for the same reasons.

MuddyScarecrow
Member

Literally nobody said that. Nobody said every game NEEDS a difficulty mode. Only that it’s not bad to have one.

GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine
By the same argument it’s “not bad” to have a multiplayer mode on every game. Except it takes time and effort to build, just like difficulty modes would for most games where they aren’t just lazy “-50% enemy health and damage”. Which, again, not all games can even use for “difficulty” because in many games the enemies aren’t the hard bit. Taking less damage wouldn’t make, eg. Ori and the Blind Forest any easier because taking damage is never the problem, not making the jumps is. So in order to have “difficulty modes” almost the whole gameworld would have to… Read more »
MuddyScarecrow
Member

This line of thinking reeks of false equivalency. Yes, making new difficulties probably would take time. But not NEARLY as much time as making an entirely new game mode.

GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine

Man, its almost like I gave a specific example of a type of game where difficulty modes would require exactly as much time as entirely new game modes because the primary sources of difficulty are not conducive to simple alteration of a few variables.

Sleepy Will
Member
Sleepy Will
You are completely wrong in your specific example though, _completely_ – I don’t know whether it;s because you have a desperate lack of imagination, or you’re so wedded to the idea that you’ve found the golden grail, a single example of a game which proves your point. Consider this, instead of redesigning every level in Ori, slow down the game by somewhere between 2-3% for your easy mode, and speed it up by 2-3% for the hard mode. Maybe make Ori 1-2% stickier in easy and 1-2% less sticky in harder. et voila, Ori difficulties done in 25 minutes, if… Read more »
Chris
Member

He doesn’t actually care about being right or wrong. He has found an argument he thinks doesn’t make him sound like the kind of elitist [♪SKELETON WARRIORS♫] that the commentocracy series is designed to make fun of, and no amount of us pointing out that he’s wrong or that it doesn’t work changes anything.

He doesn’t enjoy difficult games on their own merits, he only enjoys feeling superior to anyone who doesn’t. And any change that would challenge that has to be attacked and discredited even when it is purely hypothetical.

Angel Knight
Member
Angel Knight

Ori and the Blind Forest has difficulty modes. Guess what they do, aside from adding a couple of checkpoints to the escapes. Right, tuning variables. Which is what virtually all difficulty modes in games amount to, swapping configurations, so seeing it painted as a herculean task or on the level of adding an entire multiplayer is eye-rolling.

Anton
Member
Anton

I’m increasingly confident that you’ve entirely missed the point of this bit of comedy, and have proceeded to take it way too seriously.

Chris
Member
And here we have the straw man argument that lets the most toxic of Soulsborne fans act like entitled twats. ‘How dare you say that every dev has to add difficulty modes to every game!!??’ Literally no one is saying that. What people are saying is that a) It is generally a net positive for a game when it thinks about accessibility, be that for people with different levels of physical ability or different levels of skill and b) It doesn’t detract from the experience at all if there are difficulty modes. I’m sure that you are in the camp… Read more »
GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine
But when publishers change, eg. Dead Space into a third person linear shooter with co-op in order to be “accessable” to a wider audience that’s bad, right? And I know everyone loves to use Dark Souls in these arguments, but yes, Dark Souls would be worse for everyone if it was easier, and not just for the brute force reason that making a difficult game was the point for its creator and he would be less engaged with doing it and produce worse art if he was told otherwise. Dark Souls delivers on five of the major aesthetics of games,… Read more »
ObjectDisoriented
Member
ObjectDisoriented

What if you’re a bit crap at the game though and something that would be challenging to you would be insurmountable to other players, whereas their idea of a challenge is tediously easy to you? Why would them turning down the difficulty to a level where the challenge is at an acceptable level (remember, they have a lower base gaming skill level than you so they’ll still find it just as challenging as you on a higher difficulty) mean they don’t look for shortcuts?

ObjectDisoriented
Member
ObjectDisoriented

Also, is that your opinion of Dark Souls? It’s a bit dull but it’s really challenging so that makes it good? Sounds terrible. I’ve always been tempted to try this series but ‘janky, slow action game that is hard because yay hard’ sounds like one to avoid.

GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine
Yeah, when you actually stop and look at it, Dark Souls is pretty rough and primitive in its actual technical execution. Especially the first one, Dark Souls actually looks a bit worse than Demons Souls in some ways, with some pretty shocking texture work (and is at a lower internal resolution because of the shift to multiplatform development) and the frame rates can often shit the bed for whole levels at a time. Compared to almost every other third person action game it’s stiff and clunky, with limited animations and imprecise controls and a camera so uncooperative they had to… Read more »
Sleepy Will
Member
Sleepy Will
“Compared to almost every other third person action game it’s stiff and clunky, with limited animations and imprecise controls and a camera so uncooperative they had to completely change the control layout so you can nanny it at all times. But because the game is slow and deliberate, which is because the stakes are high because of the difficulty, that all matters far less. ” Could not disagree with any of this more – It’s not stiff and clunky, it accurately represents carrying a sword and shield. people like it because of the weight of combat compared to the mangafied… Read more »
Chris
Member

People like him don’t actually like souls games. They only enjoy feeling smug and superior, that’s why the rest of us playing differently would “ruin” his experience.

GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine

I’ve not claimed to be good at any given game, nor that skill at games confers worth on me as a person, I’ve not made any disparaging remarks about anyone else’s preferred difficulty or anyone else’s character (unlike you).

What I am saying is that difficulty is an intentional part of design, making a game easier does not make it the same but easier, it makes it materially different. In some cases, it would remove the parts of the game that are engaging to basically anyone, not just me. (because no, it’s not all just subjective).

Chris
Member
That is what /you/ like about Dark Souls. Your entire problem is you assume everyone has to enjoy the game the same way you do. And that is why you’re just as bad as the commenter JIm is reading, even if you can hide some of the obvious contempt a little better than they do. This is the same level of arrogance and entitlement, ‘I enjoy a game this way and no one else is allowed to enjoy it differently or it is /RUINED/’ No one is saying make Dark Souls easier. At /most/ people are saying that they, personally,… Read more »
GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine
You’re making the assumption that I think high difficulty is always appropriate because I argue that it is sometimes appropriate. That’s not true at all. What I’m arguing is that there is generally a correct level of difficulty for most games at which they provide the best experience. Some games only work with no difficulty at all. Gone Home, for instance, is trying to produce a relatively rare feeling for videogames, the feeling of relief after finding out that the things you were worrying about are all in your head (trying to avoid spoilers). That’s why a lot of the… Read more »
Anton
Member
Anton

Are you trying to get your own episode?

Benj
Member
Benj

“This whole bit is based on the idea that it’s somehow wrong to value difficulty in games”

No.

This whole bit is based on the idea that it’s really funny when people act smug and condescending to people who aren’t as good at games as they are.

Sperium3000
Member

I can see a good point somewhere, deep in there, but it’s surrounded on all sides by a sea of bullshit and smelling his own farts. Also, “drooling halfwit”. Fucking classy.

George
Member

I think that that commenter lost the understanding of what a game is all about. The whole point is to have fun. They’re one of the few things in life where no one else’s lives or physical welfare is on the line, so why put so much effort and dedication to be H’ardcore? No human being is going to die or be harmed if you’re crap at Dark souls…

A quote that should always be remembered because it applies to all hobbies as well…

“Above all, video games are meant to just be one thing: Fun for everyone.”
Satoru Iwata

GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine

No. Games are not only meant to be fun. They need to be about the whole range of human experience just like every other medium.

That means games need to be about tragedy, introspection, heartbreak, triumph, romance, and, yes, frustration. All of those are different from fun, some of them preclude fun. They’re all things games can be.

Sperium3000
Member

I think we can meet halfway and say games can be fun, but that’s not all they can be. And like I said before, “fun” can mean a lot of things for a lot of people. Some people have fun shitting their pants in a good horror game, I don’t. A lot of people don’t have fun getting their ass kicked over and over again at Cuphead, I do. Different strokes for different folks.

Chris
Member

So long as a button doesn’t ever ask you if you’d like an easy mode without forcing you to use it of course.

Shaded Spriter
Member
You are really using a very limited definition of fun games here. Fun isn’t just the active part of playing the game – It is also the part where you think about the games after you finish it. How thinking about the meaning and symbolism of the game. The most fun game I have played by this metric would be “The Beginner’s Guide” It creates such a deeply personal reaction in people, and thinking, talking brings about joy in me. Hell I watched at least 3 full play throughs of it as well as listening to multiple post-game “This is… Read more »
GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine
I would suggest that you’re using a definition of fun so broad you’ve rendered the word meaningless. What most people think of when they hear the word “fun” is light, nonserious enjoyment (because, y’know, that’s what the word means). It’s better to only use the word if you mean what people are going to understand by it. There are lots of ways games can be engaging that aren’t fun and that often stand in opposition to fun. Games that are explicitly supposed to not be fun because they’re not about fun things. Just like movies or books, games can express… Read more »
Kike Sosa
Member

Okay, let’s translate the Iwata quote to the context of this conversation, so that people don’t think it means “games should only be light-hearted whimsy”.

“Above all, video games are meant to just be one thing: something everyone should be able to enjoy without smug assholes trying to belittle them for not being able to play everything at the highest difficulty level.”

GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine
As soon as you start with “videogames are meant to be just one thing” you’ve already made a mistake though. Videogames can be lots of things, and no one videogame will ever or should ever try to be enjoyable to everyone. Each individual videogame should be deliberately designed to do what its designers want it to do as well as it reasonably can. If that means the game only appeals to a small number of people and is completely inaccessable to anyone else, for any reason, then so be it, that’s what the designers chose to make. Farming Simulator doesn’t… Read more »
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