Scott C Stewart
Member

hey jim if you ya still read these things lol. What are your thoughts on the angry joe review for D2

Amy
Member

I’m hoping Netease pick this up in China like they have all the other games on battlenet. Despite the massive flaws, I really enjoyed the first one.

GreenGarden
Guest
GreenGarden
One nitpick, the reason people called it an FPS over an MMO was because Bungie said it was before it’s release. I Remember E3 2013 or 14 where they had an on stage Demo out and they kept emphasizing how it was FPS fist and an MMO second. People called it otherwise because that’s what Bungie did themselves. Honestly though, I’m not a fan of the MMO idea of it being only about Loot and power for power’s sake. I want longer and most intriguing story and lore and hearing the story is short is a bit sad to me.… Read more »
Jiryb
Guest
Jiryb

To try and differentiate it from a standard MMO, and the fact it is much smaller in scale (Where MMOs are thousands on a server) they kept saying this was a “Shared World Shooter”

Jim Sterling
Guest
Jim Sterling

The only reason I insist on calling it an MMO is because Bungie were so set against it.

GreenGarden
Guest
GreenGarden

Ah, sorry I missed the sarcasm there.

Jiryn
Guest
Jiryn

Yep, as I said in my reply… Bungie wants it to be called a “Shared World Shooter”
I’m guessing either due to the smaller population size, or to not alienate potential buyers.

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

The composer is Michael Salvatori, long time colleague of Marty O’Donnell. He’s worked with Bungie since Halo 2 I believe. He may have worked on Halo CE but he’s only listed as a composer from 2 onwards.

Artemicion Verlaine
Guest
Artemicion Verlaine

They should never have called it an MMO, it’s a COORPG Shooter. In the same vein as Guild Wars 1.

El Chica Incognitus
Member

Kinda tentatively looking forward towards the PC release. Was kinda wanting to get into an MMO-lite that is more about action and less about clicking skill buttons and resource gathering/crafting.

Ziio
Guest
Ziio
Same here, though I am hesitant after reading about the change in shooting mechanics. At least for the beta it was stated that guns have little to no recoil and that the shooting felt off. I never bothered to invest in a console this generation, so its hard to know if that means off for pc or just off for console, which has an aim assist. I really wish the game had an open beta for pc, as that would make my decision to drop $100 a lot easier, since I’ve been burned by way to many games the last… Read more »
PaperMartin
Guest
PaperMartin

it had an open beta for PC actually.

Nitrium
Member

Is the possibility of 6 player raid defined as an MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online) nowadays? I’m obviously a bit confused, but going on a 6 player raid doesn’t seem very MMOish to me. How many real life people can a Destiny 2 player actually see at the same time while playing? Or is at all about having a “massive” number of players in a lobby that you can’t actually play the game with at the same time still make it an “MMO” somehow?

Rifleavenger Sashiro
Member
In “social” zones or world zones you could have 15-30 people in an instance for Destiny 1. Some strikes and raid actually began in world zones before you entered instance, and you could see unrelated players running around (good samaritans can actually assist with the opening encounter of Vault of Glass). Unsure of Destiny 2’s limits. Very small compared to other MMO’s, yes, but since you’re not tied to a specific instance/world you can run into hundreds of unique players in a day. I mean, is FF14 not an MMO because its endgame revolves around 8 man raids instead of… Read more »
Nitrium
Member
Yes, but my point is would you use the word “massively multiplayer” to describe Destiny’s online gameplay experience from the player’s perception? How many is “massive”? 6-12 people on screen at once doesn’t really invoke feelings of “massive” to me (for one). So is Destiny technically even in any way shape or form an MMO iyo? From what I’m reading I’m amazed to see it being described as such (including Jim in this review). “Massive” for me would imply at least 40+ players simultaneously interacting on the same battlefield. Six (or 12 or 24) doesn’t really seem all that “massive”… Read more »
That Damn Rat
Guest
That Damn Rat

Plenty of games with the MMO descriptor have used predominantly instance based content. More importantly as Jim describes in the review it has all the common design features of MMOs, focus on repeatable endgame content, loot grinding and (sadly) these days random loot boxes (at least the don’t do the type have to buy keys for).

Денис Фролов
Guest
Денис Фролов

So, it took them 2 games, and will take me 60+ bucks, to play game just as good as Warframe. Nice.

Whiskey Jack
Guest
Whiskey Jack

Having played both extensively, they’re two very different experiences.

KaiUno
Guest
KaiUno

Huh. Was totally expecting a lesser score because of the sleaze. Still, this review got me more exited to play the good version of the game come october 24th!

InfamousDS
Member
InfamousDS

As far as I can tell, Jim has never removed points for sleaze unless they actively inhibit game play. Sleaze just means a lot of consumer advocacy through the Jimquisition as well as total exclusion from End of Year awards.

Also, test comment under the new member system.

Jiryn
Guest
Jiryn
I just spent the better part of the last 3 days playing Destiny 2. I did the primary story, and much of the world quests and honestly.. I came away with a quite different opinion. While the game was fun at times, it really didn’t have the moment to moment gameplay I was expecting. Even during some of the primary story missions, I felt like I was just slogging through an encounter and feeling rather under powered with my hunter, as if I was hitting the enemies with a pellet gun even though I had the item level they told… Read more »
Galactix100
Member
Galactix100
The biggest problem I have with Destiny is still that lack of personality shown by the enemies. None of them hold a candle to the covenant. The covenant are great enemies because each variant has a unique, memorable personality. Be it the grunts who are shrieking, gutless cowards but can still catch you off guard when they turn up in numbers or the elites that will duck and dodge your fire and roar in frustration when you drop their shields. Destiny’s enemies, on the other hand seem to fall into one of 3 categories. Category one: hiding in cover and… Read more »
Anton
Guest
Anton

What’s even sadder is, even the new Covenant (in 343i’s Halo games) can’t hold a candle to Bungie’s Covenant. They made a conscious choice to dumb down enemies so they could put more of them on a map at once.

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100
Yup. To this day I remember the opening of Halo CE because of the unique enemy design. Heading to the bridge and watching the elites muller the ships crew, looking like intimidating monsters and then your first actual fight is with a batch of grunts that almost instantly turn and run. I was 8 when I first played it and for a long time I was scared of pushing forward because of the elites but I did, encountered the grunts and beating them up gave me the confidence to push on. Then the hunters turned up and suddenly I’m back… Read more »
GreenGarden
Guest
GreenGarden

Also they removed many of them if I’m not mistaken like Drones, Brutes, Engineers etc aren’t in the game anymore as well as they never using the big Tank killer aliens that are in the books but not in the games.

Anton
Guest
Anton

While it’s miles better than its predecessor, this is still a game checkered with issues. Every compliment comes with a caveat:

– The gunplay is great…. but enemy AI design is still mediocre at best. 95% of the enemies follow one or two behaviors – the melee mob enemies charge at you in a straight line, while the gun-wielding enemies walk toward you slowly in a straight line while firing…. you know, like a turret. What’s worse, the enemies are ported over straight from Destiny 1. This is one of my primary concerns regarding the longevity of D2 – I LOVE firing the guns, but I’m not super excited at firing them at D2’s antagonists. It’s just barely passable.

– The grind is fun and addicting this time around, but very early on, one realizes that, it does nothing for you from a gameplay perspective. It’s exciting to see the power number go up, and the loot sure as hell LOOKS cool, but playing the game at power level 50 is EXACTLY the same as playing the game at level 250. D2 copies Oblivion in the sense that, once you level up, the enemies level with you, and there is never really a tangible sense of progression. The only purpose of the grind in D2 is to pad out time and lock people out of high-level events like the raid for a while, and that’s disappointing.

– * STORY SPOILERS*

Spoiler

the story is better this time around, in the sense that there is now a semi-coherent line of events that one follows from start to finish. It is, however, still a pretty bad story. Bungie still can’t let go of the “lone hero saves the world” trope that worked so well for Halo, and it hurts Destiny because Destiny is an MMO. It’s impossible to be a special lone hero when your world is populated with thousands of them. The funny thing is, Destiny 2 doubles down on this particular problem by creating a reason why your hero is special – your here is the only one that still has his “Light”, and therefore the only one who is still immortal. Except…. all the other guardians can still respawn. Not so special after all, huh? The plot of D2 could have actually been really good from the perspective of a common grunt in a war that has thousands of grunts like him. It’s too bad Bungie can’t let go of the biggest space opera cliche ever made.

Despite my criticisms, I’m having a lot of fun with it right now, because the game is great fun, and a perfect vehicle for social gaming. Oh, and like Jim said, the soundtrack is just perfect. 7/10 from me, but the most addicting 7 you’ll ever play.

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

Absolutely agree on the dull enemy behaviour. Having well designed and varied behaviours from different enemy types can turn even a standard encounter into something memorable.

Anton
Guest
Anton

The weirdest realization I had about Destiny 1/2 was that its combat encounter structure might actually be closer to Serious Sam than Halo. And Serious Sam might have actually done it better.

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

The weapons in the bungie Halos were largely designed to make the player charge forward and fight relatively up close. Other than the BR, carbine, sniper and beam rifle they were all designed to be mostly useless at range.

Jiryn
Guest
Jiryn

I honestly found the grind tedious and boring, it did nothing for me and having it forced on me instead of finding a way to naturally include it into the gameplay hurt.
Maybe if you could take multiple missions? I don’t know, maybe way to much MMO history for myself on that one.
Every single “Adventure” felt similar, Find clues, follow trail into cave, kill boss.

Jiryn
Guest
Jiryn
The major problem is, unlike other RPGs, you don’t really feel the growth of your character and I feel that severely hurts the gameplay. As you pointed out, there is no difference between a level 50 and level 250 gear set. In most RPG like games, you can go back to the starting area and nothing can lay a finger on you. Doubly so on long running MMOs like WoW and FF14, you go back to the beginning and nothing can kill, let alone touch you. Not so much here, you can go to the first area on earth Trotsland… Read more »
Khaos
Guest
Khaos

So Jim, do you think that if it weren’t for the microtransactions that this game would have scored a little higher?| Like an 8.5 or a 9?

Jim Sterling
Guest
Jim Sterling

Yeah, I think so. The game was terrific fun and I want to put it in the upper echelons, but to some us cosmetics *do* impact the game, and it’s pulled it down a touch.

Uldihaa
Member
I’m happy to hear this. I was also one of those that severely disliked the original (it was the game that finally killed my impulse to pre-order) and for precisely the same reasons; the world felt empty, the story was so generic as to be unnoticeable, and I just didn’t give a damn about getting to the end-game. It was all the worst things about MMOs without any of the best things. This sounds like they addressed most of the issues. I am curious if there are any ‘pointless’ NPCs that are just wandering around doing their own thing. I’ve… Read more »
Galactix100
Member
Galactix100
From what I’ve played the hub area does have a lot of npcs that stand around doing nothing except maybe say some random, uninteresting dialogue. The story in this one is very generic, the first one, on the other hand didn’t actually have one but instead had a bunch of vaguely connected missions and the odd cutscene that threatened to advance the plot but never did. From what I’ve heard the original, more interesting story was leaked and the final version was likely a hastily written replacement. Overall though it’s a marked improvement but still has plenty of room for… Read more »
Anton
Guest
Anton

You’re going to be mostly disappointed then. I’ve played everything but the raid, and can confirm that the primary worlds are populated entirely by enemies. There is exactly one questgiver NPC in each world, but they never move or do anything by themselves, so they’re essentially a kiosk-less kiosk.

The “farm” social hub has a bunch of civilians wandering around, which does help bring it to life a bit, but they don’t do anything other than contributing idle chatter between each other.

Uldihaa
Member

Yeah, I’m going to wait until reviews from MMO players appear. Most of the Destiny reviews I’ve seen are from an FPS gaming perspective.

Lloyd Arold
Member

While it is indeed an improvement, I’d give it no more than a five. It’s what Destiny should have been from the start (or closer to it) but still not enough to give me a reason to stick with it after beating the story campaign.

Anton
Guest
Anton

Playing this for the story is sort of missing the point. You make friends (or bring your own), and you tackle high-end challenges like the Raid. If you don’t do that, you’re missing out on the best part of the game.

Lloyd Arold
Member

TBH I couldn’t be bothered to grind missions to get my gear high enough to even try the high end stuff. It was worth renting for a few days but not enough to keep me coming back for more.

Anton
Guest
Anton

Well, you’re free not to like it, but maybe that’s because you don’t like the MMO structure in general. The game’s just not made for you.

D2’s grind to raid level is actually quite quick by MMO standards.

Lloyd Arold
Member

Eh it just depends on the game really. I’ve done my fair share of grinding for loot over the years in MMO’s and/or RPG’s.

D2 is an improvement I won’t argue that, just not enough in my opinion.

GreenGarden
Guest
GreenGarden

But that doesn’t have to be the structure of all MMOs, even Jim has said in the past that too many MMOs saw what WOW did and just replicated it. There is no reason why there shouldn’t be MMOs that are more lore and story based over raids and grind or that their can’t be an equal split. Like how not all RPGs need to be open world or how not all fighting games have to be purely online PvP based.

… Sorry that didn’t mean to be as ranty as it came across.

Anton
Guest
Anton

That’s probably true. In either case… the grind in Destiny 2, at least the necessary grind to reach the baseline 270 to raid, is 270. I got to 275 within the first week, playing 2-3 hours a day. And that includes time for the story. Not the most herculean of efforts, by MMO or even FPS standards (the Far Cry games take longer than this).

Anton
Guest
Anton

Wow, I need to proof read, lol.

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