MuddyScarecrow
Member

I just realized that the idiots who bitch and whine about “millennials” having games catered to them with easy modes and accessibility are probably millennials themselves. Because no I don’t buy for a moment that you’ve been gaming since the 80s because nobody in their thirties gives a shit about how hardcore games were back then. Because being “hardcore” wasn’t a thing back then.

TemplarGR
Member
TemplarGR
I tried Cuphead but wasn’t for me. An exceptional artwork, a true masterpiece artistically, and i can really appreciate that and hope to see more of that in the future from other developers too. This game was made from their heart and it shows. I hope it sells well and i do wish them to create more games, but i find gameplay like this not for me. I don’t like “hard” games that rely on pure trial and error and some cheap difficulty design. Which is why i find the Souls games bad as well. I don’t have anything to… Read more »
Lloyd Arold
Member

Well I can at least agree that the game is pretty much perfect the way it is.

Nitrium
Member

The “casual elitism” required to effectively parody “hardcore elitism” is making many a head explode (especially in YouTube comments). This is creating South Park “Chewbacca Defence” levels of confusion as to which side people think they are actually on. It’s brilliantly subversive.

El Chica Incognitus
Member

Just went looking through the Cuphead forum and art section on steam.

Holy fuck way to make a fun game about 1920’s cartoon art and boss fights into an exercise in pure douchebaggery.

ThisisturtiM
Member
ThisisturtiM

Sorry Jim, but I can’t help but shake the feeling that this series is just a salty man complaining about people who enjoy hard games. Someone feel free to set me straight, but it reminds me of when my brother who cried when I beat him in a deathmatch.

Bluejaaam
Member
Bluejaaam
The look of utter joy on Jim’s face at the very end is beautiful. I love Cuphead but I am also very bad at it. Like Thumper last year, it’s gonna end up being my game of the year despite me not completing it because, whilst difficult, it always feels fair and encourages me that i’m getting better. I generally don’t have patience/time for rock hard games because I feel like I’m wasting my time repeating the same bit of game over and over again but Cuphead’s levels are so short and the gameplay feels so tight that I rarely… Read more »
Benj
Member
Benj

Cuphead should have an easy mode.

But only if it’s a gamestop exclusive pre-order bonus!

Nohat Coder
Member
Nohat Coder

Cuphead – Almost as hard as Duke Amiel du H’ardcore’s nipples!

KeekingItReal
Member
I gotta be honest, when you go “off script” for this stuff instead of reading the comments it sounds super forced and unnecessary and you come across as really (for lack of a better word) salty. Not in the sense as it’s part of your act either. It’s kind of difficult to watch. I’d say for future episodes it’d do you better not to go overboard with the act when you’re not reading comments. Plus it’d probably be funnier to say “rub my nipplays” with a sense of seriousness. Unless the “rub my nipplays” comment is actually one of the… Read more »
Deena
Member
Deena

I mean, given where most of those comments are coming from, I wouldn’t be too surprised…

KeekingItReal
Member

Wow, that’s a lot of downvotes.

Lewdology PhD
Member

Man, I really appreciate the slightly confused and subtly insecure expression the Duke always has. It really underlines the sentiment of the comments. Perfect.

Wisq
Member
Wisq

Oh jesus Jim, please, don’t smash cups in front of your face without eye protection.

Jimbuscus
Member
Jimbuscus

Bit hard for me but I like the art

Christian Pohl
Member
Looking at Vanquish, Bayonetta, MGR ReVengeance, Transformers Devastation or Jamestown and pretty much any Cave bullet hell, I don’t see a problem with including easy modes without ruining the experience for the truly masochistic. In most Platinum games, you’ll not only find nicely graded difficulty modes, with remixed enemy placement and attack patterns, but also items which literally let you fight with one button. Are you forced to use them? No. But it makes the game accessible for a wider audience. On the other hand, the top difficulty modes like Infinite Climax in Bayonetta are HARD. I went through the… Read more »
GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine
Platinum put a lot of effort into difficulty modes, but I can’t help thinking that a lot of it is wasted. Thanks to a handy dose of stats from the Xbox app, we can see that only 6.22% of people who have played the game have completed acts 1-4 of Bayonetta on Hard (whilst 20% of people complete the game on Normal and 30% on any difficulty. So, all that extra effort to make Hard mode is only appreciated by about one in twenty players. It probably doesn’t help that Hard is blatantly intended to be played after completing Normal… Read more »
Dj_Ziio
Member
Dj_Ziio

I can’t get the game Sid Meier’s Pirates out of my head because of that music. Now I have to see if there is a modern PC version available and court myself a wife.

Christian Pohl
Member

Firaxis made a console version for the original Xbox (and PSP), with small gameplay tweaks (dancing minigame, turn-based tactics battles for larger engagements, etc), but the core gameplay was still there. All the sailing, fencing, ship-battling, tavern-cruising stuff.

Anyway, there is a Windows port of said Xbox version on Steam. Ran rather well on Win7, no idea if it works on Win10. I could check tomorrow morning, still have it in my library thanks to that huge Firaxis Humble bundle they had.

Chris
Member

The Steam port works quite well. I do wish someone would just make a modern version of it. I basically wanted that out of Black Flag and kept being annoyed when that pesky Assassin’s Creed gameplay would get in the way of my stealing sugar and rum to pay for new ship upgrades and dueling officers on the decks of enemy ships.

Anton
Member
Anton
On a somewhat related note, something I want to never see again in a game is the condescending “Would you like to switch to an easier difficulty?”, message when you fail several times in a row. I remember playing Onimusha back when I was twelve, and getting repeatedly demolished. I was already pissed off, and that sent me right the fuck over the edge. The second half of that afternoon was spent with my dad, learning how to put new drywall into a controller-shaped hole in the wall. He would have been mad, but he was too busy laughing at… Read more »
El Chica Incognitus
Member
Aaaaaargh. YES THERE WAS EASY MODES BACK IN THE 90s! There was difficulty settings, there was the konomi code, there was LOTS OF SHIT IN GAMES TO MAKE THEM EASIER BACK THEN. You want the fucking honest truth? Old games weren’t THAT fucking hard. Everyone just likes to misremember things as being “nintendo-hard” but the reality was the overwhelming majority of games wasn’t ballbreakingly ridiculously hard. Cuphead is WAY harder then most games that came out during this so called “hardcore” era. Some of these fucking so called elitist 80’s and 90’s babies needs to talk to someone who was… Read more »
Chris
Member
People really do seem to be wilfully ignorant of the way that cheat codes and level select codes /were/ the easy or accessible mode back in the day. I’d have never beaten Sonic 2 as a kid if I hadn’t been able to pick back up after a game over with a level select. These guys are just assholes. They just want to lord something over others. Nerd culture has a really nasty strain of this running through out it, and it is damn near toxic among video gamers. The idea that it takes away from their experience that anyone… Read more »
MuddyScarecrow
Member

And of course there’s also the obvious thing they overlook which is that a lot of these “hardcore” games were either terribly designed or were made hard for the sake of making their games longer so they wouldn’t be returned to Toys R Us in a day. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with making a hardcore experience. I don’t even think the “hardcore” mindset existed back then. It’s something that’s only developed with hindsight and I think it’s completely false.

Terry-Osaurusus Hex XI
Member

What do you mean ‘go buy an xbox instead’? It’s ON the Xbox as a Microsoft exclusive!

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

You’d almost think these guys are all wee roasters who just talk a load of shite.

MuddyScarecrow
Member

More than likely Cunthead over here is probably playing it on the PC and has somehow deluded his hardcore ass into thinking that’s all it’s available on.

Sperium3000
Member
See, this one hits me hard because, while I’m not going to shit on people who say “Boy this game is hard”, I’m on the camp that yes, it’s part of the point..? Look, we can mock the term “hardcore” as much as we want, but what bothers me with the argument that “Oh man this game is hard wish I could skip bosses THIS GAME IS SO HARD IT’S EXCLUDING PEOPLE” is that you’re entirely dismissing the concept of difficulty – or rather, *challenge* – being an integral part of the game’s enjoyment. And I get it, some people… Read more »
Anton
Member
Anton
You make some valid points, and I completely agree that sometimes the difficulty can be vital to the experience (see my rant about Dark Souls below). However, I think the general consensus is that you can have your challenging mode, while simultaneously other people can have access to an easier mode or “skip” buttons. Everybody gets what they want; you might argue that the easy-mode people are cheating themselves out of the intended experience, but YOU can still have that experience; neither the hard-mode people, or the easy-mode people are affected by each other’s choices. I think the older Halo… Read more »
Sperium3000
Member

I got nothing against easy mode, the concept of a skip button irks me though. As I already explained. Though a skip button exclusive TO the easy mode wouldn’t be bad at all. Ooh, had a breakthrough.

Terry-Osaurusus Hex XI
Member

This isn’t about the game being difficult, it’s about the type of gamer that feels the need to claim superiority over others in the same medium. That is what the Duke is as a character.

Sperium3000
Member

Oh I get that, I just thought it was a good opportunity to get “my side of the story” out as it were.

Chris
Member

Your side of the story being that you want to condescend to people who aren’t as good at the game, calling them sweetheart and patting them on the head, and that elevators for people in wheelchairs or with other disabilities ruin the sense of accomplishment you get from walking up the stairs.

Sure glad you got to add that to the conversation.

Kirk Hammer
Member
Kirk Hammer
But what effect does someone playing their copy of the game in an easier fashion actually have on you, and the way you’re playing your copy of the game? If other people are enjoying something on a less advanced level than you are, why care? By your logic you’re getting a fuller experience out of it than them, and the only person their playing on Easy has an actual effect on is themselves. Besides, who else are you going through the experience of playing on hard for other than yourself and your own enjoyment of it? Is there ever going… Read more »
Sperium3000
Member
Oh it’s not at all about the way they play a game has effect on me. Like, the existance of an eyes mode doesn’t bother me because I can just play the game at a challenge level that suits me, right? Ok, cool. But imagine I’m playing the game on hard and there’s still a big glowing “SKIP BOSS” button on the corner of the screen. That’s my problem. I’m sure there’s a middle ground that can be achieved where you can have accessbility AND challenge, but I don’t want one to be compromised in favor of the other. Also… Read more »
Gitaxian
Member
Gitaxian

You’re taking the idea of the “skip boss” button way too literally. There doesn’t need to be anything on the screen. You can accomplish the same result by, say, being able to select any level off the bat without having to complete the previous one first. There are a variety of ways to allow a player to skip boss fights other than a big glaring SKIP BOSS button.

Deena
Member
Deena
See, the problem here is that everything you’re saying is a perfectly valid justification – of why *you* wouldn’t want to change the difficulty of a game when that’s allegedly an integral part of enjoying it. That is true for *you*, and hey, more power to you. But someone else “dismissing the concept of difficulty” has absolutely zero impact on how you play or enjoy the game; or if it does, that’s something you should look into for your own sake. Nobody gets to decide the “right” way for me to play any damn game I pay for except me.… Read more »
Sperium3000
Member

Ok, people are missing my point. It’s about how you play the game, it’s about how that CAN affect me.

Taking Cuphead for example. If the Simple Mode in that game allowed you to get to the ending, ok, cool, I don’t mind that because it doesn’t affect me. But if you systematically lower the difficulty of the game all across the board or put a “Skip Boss button” even if I’m playing normal or expert, then that’s a problem and I wouldn’t like that.

Anton
Member
Anton

That’s an awfully specific scenario, though, and not a very likely one. The vast majority of games that have hard modes will turn off the obvious assists. You’re still thinking of it in a context where the accessibility is forced on you rather than given as an option.

Sperium3000
Member

Yes, I suppose I’m just worrying over nothing.

That wasn’t sarcasm, by the way. Thought I should make that clear.

Deena
Member
Deena

Game balance gets tweaked all the time in post-launch patching, though. Devs can decide to change a mechanic or a particular feature to make a game harder or easier. Those changes you actually *can’t* opt out of (unless you deliberately don’t update a game, which seems counterproductive).

Bottom line’s ultimately the same: if me pushing the Skip Boss button affects *you*, that’s something you really should examine further. Nobody gets to dictate other players’ experiences unless they’re the developers themselves.

Chris
Member

How does the ‘skip boss’ button effect you if you don’t press it? Seriously, how does someone else seeing the ending without beating a boss effect you if you still get to fight it?

Sperium3000
Member

It affects me because it take away a little of the reward in beating a tough challenge. Like climbing the stairs to a tall building when you could just take the elevator. There’s a right way to implement that kind of thing, of course. I’m just saying we shouldn’t beat each other over the head over this. There’s people who like harder games, there’s people who dont, we can meet halfway and compromise. So please chill?

Chris
Member
Except you’re saying your enjoyment of a game can only come from the knowledge that I’m suffering. Your analogy of the stairs, so you can only enjoy the challenge of climbing the stairs or feel a sense of accomplishment of someone in a wheel chair is stuck at the bottom of the stairs unable to get up? Enjoy whatever games you want. No one is stopping you. But if your enjoyment requires others to be excluded or to suffer than that makes you sound like an asshole, and it doesn’t really don’t like you enjoy games like this so much… Read more »
Sperium3000
Member

Wow, you turbo leapt into conclusions.

I don’t care about other people, I’m talking about MYSELF. If -I’m- playing a game and there’s no NEED for me to struggle against a tough challenge because -I- can just skip it. Ok? Eliminate other people from that analogy. I’m talking about how this affects ONLY ME.

Chris
Member
Right, the option that you never have to take and that was added for other people with different ability levels than you ruins your ability to enjoy a game. Just like knowing that they added elevators for someone in a wheelchair ruins your sense of accomplishment at being able to walk up the stairs. At no point have I not understood what you are saying. I simply disagree with it and think you ought to rethink how you get enjoyment from a game if that is the case. You restating it over and over doesn’t change that. I self impose… Read more »
Sperium3000
Member

THAT IS NOT WHAT I’M SAYING OH MY GOD HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU

Chris
Member

Not sure, you could try having an actual argument other than “I wouldn’t like seeing a button I’m not required to press that doesn’t effect be in any way and therefore the game is being ruined for me.” That might help clear things up. Also if the analogy you used wasn’t “fuck people in wheelchairs, I want to feel a sense of accomplishment climbing the stairs with my working legs.”

Sperium3000
Member

Forget it. I’m done. Bye.

Chris
Member

Don’t take the elevator on the way out, that’s only for filthy casuals.

Nitrium
Member

So let me get this straight, you’re saying elevators should be taken out of some buildings because it makes getting to the top too easy and thus automatically ruins the triumphant experience of the climb for those who prefer taking the stairs? ;-).

Sperium3000
Member

Trolling doesn’t really help the discussion, you know.

GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine
On the other hand, it’s also why a game designer might make a game difficult on purpose and not want to have a way to have it be less difficult. Challenge is one of the aesthetics that a game can deliver, and it is quite appropriate for a game designer to say “we want the game to be a challenge, so it is hard” and refuse to make it less hard. I firmly believe that difficulty is also something that the designer should control. That doesn’t mean that every game should be difficult, or even that most games should be… Read more »
Chris
Member

Yes, for the record, it does make you sound like an asshole. Other people shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy a game differently than you. No one is forcing you to miss anything or skip content, therefore it’s none of your business if they are ‘missing out’ on something.

Sperium3000
Member

None of what you said had anything to do with what I said. Also thanks for calling me an asshole. Classy.

Chris
Member

I said that because you said “I’m sorry if this makes me an asshole”, I’m simply agreeing with you. And I said that that post made you sound like one, not that you are one. I don’t know you, I can only base my thoughts of a post you yourself said probably made people think you were an asshole.

Sarklor
Member

As excuses to rub your nipples in public go, I have to say this video series is one of the better ones.

Amy
Member
I wish there were less idiots like this that give those of us that just like a challenge in games a bad name. I just want more games that are designed to test your limits, rather than just ‘1 shot kill protagonists and bullet sponge enemies’. I don’t care how accessible they make it for everyone else, if it also has a well designed mode for me. And cuphead is awesome, i would be happy if they added some kind of ‘cartoon mode’ or something for those that just want to enjoy the aesthetic or a less taxing experiance. (As… Read more »
Kirk Hammer
Member
Kirk Hammer

Yeah, that’s what confuses me about people insisting a game shouldn’t have an easy mode – it’s a seperate mode, so it by definition doesn’t have any effect on any existing ‘Normal’ or ‘Hard’ modes. The only thing that such a mode could possibly take away from the h’ardcore gamer is if they think beating a game is less “prestigious” (lol) if other people can do it without bending over backwards to do it on Ultra-Extreme-Nightmare-Whatever mode, in which case I’d ask them why they’re even playing games to begin with?

Sperium3000
Member

I don’t mind easy modes in games, but the argument that Dark Souls should have one kind of boggles my mind because from the ground up the game was made with the concept of “dynamic difficulty” in mind and to implement a difficult mode would require a paradigm change. But I get it, people want what they want, I will not judge you for it, don’t @ me please.

Chris
Member

You say that, but you’ve done nothing but judge people for it and complain that seeing a button pop up is ruining your experience.

GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine

On the other hand, why do some people insist that every game should have an easy mode?

If a game is hard, why not accept that it’s hard and if you don’t like hard games don’t play them? I don’t like football games, as a result I don’t buy FIFA. I don’t demand FIFA change to accomodate me not liking what it is trying to be.

Deena
Member
Deena

Note here that your stated problem is that you don’t *like* football games, not that you like them yet they’re too difficult for you to enjoy. False analogies are all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

This isn’t even an argument that would hold water if you pitched it to game developers, because an easy mode means a distinct possibility of more sales (lest we forget the self-proclaimed “niche” is just that, a niche), which can in turn fund expansions, DLCs, maybe even sequels.

Anton
Member
Anton

That might not be a false analogy, though. Difficulty is a design choice, just as much as anything else.

Deena
Guest
Deena

But this isn’t an objection to a design choice – “football games” (or sports games by extension) are a genre. If I don’t like jumpscare games, I’m not going to play them no matter how they’re designed. That’s entirely different from loving platformers and not being able to enjoy one in particular because of an extremely high difficulty setting.

GloatingSwine
Member
GloatingSwine
The way we think of genre in videogame design is bunk, it’s a broken descriptor from before anyone had sat and put serious thought into talking about game design. Abandon the idea that because two games have similar mechanics to each other they are attempting to do even slightly the same things. Portal is not the same as Metroid Prime even if they are both games in first person where you jump a lot and shoot things. Their dynamics and aesthetics are different. Check out the MDA design framework instead as a way of thinking about how games are designed… Read more »
Gitaxian
Member
Gitaxian
That same extra credits video explicitly points out difficulty and challenge are NOT the same thing, and difficulty is not the “main dynamic for delivering challenge.” There’s also the question of games that present multiple aesthetics, and whether it should be possible to choose which ones you want to experience. Cuphead presents two main aesthetics, one in challenge and one centered on the unique presentation that I’d argue is exploration. (although trying to split aesthetic into specific and arbitrary categories is not something I’m a fan of) If someone isn’t interested in Cuphead for the challenge, but is interested in… Read more »
Anton
Member
Anton
I think you’re missing the point here. Difficulty is not a parameter that exists independently of everything else. Halo on “Easy” mode is not the same game as Halo on “Legendary”. To play it on easy, all you need to is walk forward and shoot sometimes. To play it on Legendary, you must learn and master all of its mechanics. These are two vastly different experiences, because using easy mode pretty much invalidates any complexity or nuance the game has by making it unnecessary. Once you strip away the complexity, you’re not playing the same game anymore. That’s why you… Read more »
Anton
Member
Anton

You know, in a weird way the guy who said that Let’s Plays are the easy mode isn’t wrong – it’s the ultimate easy mode. There are literally zero gameplay barriers and all the content is there to be seen. Sometimes I’ve used it to view alternate game endings that I’m too lazy to re-play a game for.

Golden episode, as usual, Jim

MuddyScarecrow
Member

The funny part comes when he’s trying to shame people for watching Let’s Plays and yet they’re some of the most popular content on Youtube soooooo what exactly was his point again? Exactly?

Anton
Member
Anton

Are you really expecting him to have a coherent point to begin with?

Deena
Member
Deena

That only holds true for certain types of games, though – something like Divinity: Original Sin 2 or Pyre wouldn’t really work that way, because the content you’re seeing isn’t necessarily the content you would’ve seen if you were the one making the choices.

Anton
Member
Anton

Million-Dollar Idea –

A “choose-your-own-adventure” style series of playthrough videos. A branching collection of videos in which, at certain points, the video gives you a choice of which in-game action you want to take. Every action choice leads to a different video; this way, the viewer actually exerts some control over the experience.

Deena
Member
Deena

A worthwhile thought, but it would require the LPer/streamer to run every probable branch and upload it all together – lots of reloading and playing through the same setup to the choices, etc. Perhaps if three or four of them were working in unison, posting videos simultaneously?

Anton
Member
Anton

Yeah, it would be a large undertaking. However… it would also mean a lot more videos being watched, and a ton more ad revenue, so why not?

ArtSolopov
Member

Did you just invent visual novels on steroids?..

Anton
Member
Anton

The idea is hardly new, there were fmv adventure games in the eighties.

…ahem, I mean, yes, it’s my invention, *Patent Pending*. Send me all the money gained from it.

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

You can’t have gameplay barriers if there’s no gameplay [INSERT MEME HERE]

Kirk Hammer
Member
Kirk Hammer

Be honest Jim, how many cups did you go through trying to get that cup-smashing shot right?

MuddyScarecrow
Member

Poor Dark Souls. At this point it really just feels like that game fell victim to its own fan base; applying “hardcore” gate keeping to it that I’m pretty sure the actual devs never intended. Because really that’s what this is. These games are basically the Salty Spittoon if its customers started acting like they were the bouncers, intentionally turning away guests as if they know what the hell the actual club owners want out of their clientele.

Amy
Member

Hard to know, Japanese gamers do tend to expect a higher difficulty level from their games than the west from what i’ve heard and read. They still seem to be much more into games as a medium that needs to be beaten rather than finished.

Anton
Member
Anton
I think it’s more that Japanese developers are more in love with the systems of the game. The difficulty isn’t the point, it’s just what motivates the player to learn the ins and outs of the game. For example, imagine if Dark Souls was blatantly easy. Players wouldn’t have to learn how to properly dodge or block, or how to manage their stamina. They probably wouldn’t even know that there is a parry available to them. They certainly wouldn’t take the time to understand how weapon and stat scaling works, and how to approach making a viable build. For all… Read more »
Gitaxian
Member
Gitaxian
Only if you look at difficulty as an entirely linear scaling. You can keep stamina and parrying as necessary mechanics while still making the game easier. The window you have to input parries and how much advance warning you get from enemies that you need to dodge or block are a part of difficulty too. You can tune the game to require using the full array of mechanics without increasing difficulty. As an aside, I’m of the opinion having “viable builds” is poor game design, as it implies the existence of nonviable builds. You should never give the player a… Read more »
Kirk Hammer
Member
Kirk Hammer
Yeah, ultimately all but the most purist of games developers want more people to play their games, thus buying more copies and allowing them to pay the rent. DS1 fans seem to be a special breed of obsessive over the “purity of the designers’ vision” though, even as things they cite as being crucial to the series (certain level structures, access to healing items) become less and less typical of the Souls series over time. To these Armchair Game Designers it can’t just be that FromSoft decided to readjust the difficulty or aren’t as obsessed with only appealing to True… Read more »
Deena
Member
Deena

Oh shit, here we go O_O

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