The Jimquisition: How Consoles Broke The ‘Play Now’ Promise

After spending almost an entire day downloading Mafia III on the PS4, I’m compelled to reflect on how consoles are lying inferior machines that properly fucked up.

A harsh reflection, perhaps, but a bloody true one. Their makers consider themselves in competition with PC, so they’re asking for some harsh home truths.

  • TheGreenSasquatch is a puddle

    Question, with Troy Baker and other voice actors are officially going on strike, I’m wondering if you planing on doing the same when it comes to that area?

    • that strike is really going to bite them in the ass, unlike the WGA, they don’t have a near monopoly, SAG-AFTRA represents less then 25% of games, so a strike would barely affect the industry at all, it would be extremely easy for publishers to find better voice actors who are not members of that union.

    • Jim’s not part of the union so it won’t happen, also I think that strike is a VERY bad idea as it will come back to bite all the VAs in the ass hard, since the union they are a part of represents less then 25% of video games out there, so unlike the WGA strike, this isn’t going to cripple an industry, it’s very easy to work around and get other voice actors to fill in without the strike making any real impact at all, hell some of the new VAs might actually be better(look I like Troy Baker and Nolan North, but I feel that they are overused at times, I think we could stand to discover some new blood).

  • RifleAvenger Sashiro

    Consoles have lost themselves chasing after something they can never be. It’s sad really.

    • They haven’t lost themselves at all, they’re still selling like crazy.

      • RifleAvenger Sashiro

        Nothing is instantaneous. Consoles are riding off decades of positive experiences, and will only begin to decline as the negatives pile up.

        I say this as some who is not a PC gamer, my computer is a 2011 laptop and can’t play most high end games made in its own year (I use it for older titles and emulators). This console generation is trying my patience.

        • I think you’re wildly overestimating, lots of people still prefer consoles over PCs as they find buying a console much less intimidating then building a PC.

          This console generation is not trying my patience at all, I personally can’t imagine gaming on a laptop, I would find that very uncomfortable fast, i’ll stick with my regular desktop PC.

  • TheGreenSasquatch is a puddle

    Also I agree with you with download times and size Day One DLC on consoles, it’s so annoying and I wish the PS4 was honest when games are downloading and just tell me when the game is actually downloaded.

    Even games like Overwatch does it.

    Though one point I disagree with you with is that the only areas Console had the up on was cost and convenience. For me and many other left handed people, PC gaming is a massive pain because of the lack of left handed support for many games like preset southpaw controller and keyboard options or even just the option to rebind keys (which is just a pain to do for a lot of games like those with long tutorials or keep adding commends as the game goes on). Plus, I just find the console community is less toxic than the PC and I have found I get less threats and homophobia on online console games than I do on PC (plus less annoying “Master Race” elitism).

    • I typically see more and better control options on PC.

      The community aspects are a total wash. There are great and dumpster fire sections of both communities.

      • Anton

        Amen to point 2.

  • Thanatos

    It’s been like this for a while. Time from disk insertion to actual gameplay is actually much, much faster on PC now. Steam will install your game AND patch it, AND any DLC you are owed in one operation. With consoles it’s a multi-stage process with multiple system updates (Odd, I don’t have to update Windows to the latest version in order to install or play a game, even playing it online), and wading through the shit show the is the Playstation or Xbox store a second or third time to download any free DLC.

    Consoles are just weak PCs, in EVERY sense of the word, from the hardware to the experience..

    • TheGreenSasquatch is a puddle

      But you are missing a key problem with PC, getting them to run in the first place which is a massive hassle.

      I’m sorry but building a gaming PC is not fun or convenient for many people. Like people who just want to play games, or are parents, just aren’t good at electronics or don’t have the time and patience to build one

      Not helped that PC gamers and site don’t seem to be willing to help in this regard, rarely making easy instructions or guides to tell how to get started and instead prefer going, “Hey this new Nvidia graphics card is only $600 so cheap!” or just repeating, “Buy a PC!” over and over like that’s useful.

      Plus, buying a pre-made gaming PC is expensive and not a option for many of us who don’t have the money to afford it. I don’t get why the PC market is so against making cheaper and more convenient pre-made gaming PC as that would be so useful. It’s one of the reasons why I wanted the Steam Machine to be a success.

      And lastly, PC gaming isn’t convenient for us left handed people as I mentioned in another comment below.

      • Artemiy

        Reddit’s /r/buildapc looks like a helpful community in that regard.
        Also, if you’re willing to dish out some cash, there are companies willing to build a PC for you. Heck, I got my PC assembled for free as a part of a store deal.

        P. S. I agree that building a PC might be a hassle, but considering its usefulness (in general, not just for gaming), I think it’s worthy a time.

        • TheGreenSasquatch is a puddle

          But even, they are usually still more expensive than their console counter parts, especially so deep into the current generation and it’s still not as convenient. Like how many parents or non-tech people are going to know about that sub-reddit or know about those companies?

          To me, both PC and consoles have issues when it comes to this, just that PC is during the beginning process and on consoles during the play now part.

          • Artemiy

            PC is more expensive (and more difficult) to build, but gets cheaper in the long run due to cheaper games.
            Also consider: building a PC is a one-time action while dealing with this “play now” thing is something you need to address every time you install a game.

          • TheGreenSasquatch is a puddle

            True, but I feel that initial hurdle that most console and non PC fans aren’t willing to take and I can’t blame them. I actually do want to get into PC gaming for the mods and graphic support, but it’s just too costly and I don’t have the no how to build a PC. It’s something the PC market needs to address if it wants to be the most convenient option for gaming.

            For me, that would mean making more affordable Pre-made gaming PC that can be found a Amazon or in stores and gaming site to stop calling $600 graphic cards cheap and making more easily available guides and instructions for new comers.

          • Artemiy

            Well, a lot of gaming websites aren’t reliable even at the best of times. That’s where the community guides are useful. According to /r/buildapc, $600 will get you a quite decent computer.
            I agree that the hurdle is there and is considerable, but I do urge you not to fear. If you’re not terribly concerned about getting the latest and the greatest, maybe you can even buy a cheap-ish machine from a computer store, just be prepared to change it in a couple years.

          • TheGreenSasquatch is a puddle

            Thank you and thanks for being so reasonable (:

          • Artemiy

            I try. =)

          • TheGreenSasquatch is a puddle

            Plus, even after the PC is built issues like the lack of support for left handed players are constant issues.

          • Artemiy

            Well, if a PC game is anywhere near decent, it’d support rebindable keys, if that’s what you’re talking about.

          • TheGreenSasquatch is a puddle

            Somewhat, more games having southpaw presets in games for controllers and keyboard as well as having the option to rebind which can be a massive pain (Arkham City was a pain in this regard).

            It’s annoying many games lack this, especially when in many cases for AAA, their console counterparts have controller SP support, but the PC version don’t (Ubisoft and WB are really guilty of this).

          • That’s still less daunting of a task then building a PC, I don’t want to risk breaking something.

          • You don’t need to build it yourself. Order all the parts in the same store, and order the store to assemble it for you. It should be no more than $30-50 (in the EU the typical cost is 40€). If you also order the operating system they should send you a fully functional PC.

          • I actually had someone else who lives close to me build my first PC.

      • Thanatos

        “getting them to run in the first place which is a massive hassle.”

        This isn’t 2002. I haven’t had a single game that I’ve bought through Steam in the past 5 years fail to run.

        Let’s not pretend that consoles games are spotless. Remember No Man’s Sky and how it would freeze consoles at the drop of a hat? It’s becoming increasingly common.

        “PC gaming isn’t convenient for us left handed people”

        I’m left handed. I use a mouse in my right hand. No issues for 25 years now.

        • PCs have thousands of different configurations, just cause you haven’t had problems does not mean other people haven’t, Total Biscuit himself has said this numerous times.

          Jim himself was unable to get Deadly Premonition to properly run on PC.

          • Thanatos

            Sure, it happens from time to time, but it is absolutely not a typical case for a typical person running the vast majority of games. They work out of the box. For the small percentage that don’t, reinstalling and/or updating video card drivers fix them. For a percent of that percent, yeah, there might be bugs that prevent play.

            Fun fact: console games have game breaking bugs in them released all the time. Sometimes they get patched. Just like PC games that won’t run on a small number of machines get patched. Not a big difference, except that in the case of the PC game you might actually be able to fix the problem yourself or with a mod if you know what you’re doing. No such recourse ever exists in a console game.

          • But sometimes trying to fix a game on PC yourself can make it unplayable, Jim ran into that problem himself more then once.

          • Thanatos

            Well, that’s when you can reinstall…….

            I’m sure you have some anecdote ready about how that didn’t work at some point for some person, but what does that mean in the grand scheme of things?

          • Jim tried reinstalling Deadly Premonition and was still unable to play it.

            It does mean quite a bit on the grand scheme of things, Caddicarus recently had a good argument for why he preferred playing on consoles over PCs in his Top 10 Unpopular Opinions in Gaming video.

          • Thanatos

            At this point I think you’re just making things up.

          • No i’m not, fucking Google it.

          • Thanatos

            And sometimes turning on your console causes your console to brick. So? Freak accidents that rarely happen are irrelevant to this discussion.

          • I’ve never heard of a console getting bricked just from turning it on, only from disconnecting it during an update, also we’re talking about games not consoles themselves so your post is arguably not relevant itself.

          • Thanatos

            It has happened. But it’s rare! So if we’re going to be passing off rare occurrences as the normal situation as you keep trying to do with PC games, consoles are just as bad as PCs, apparently!

      • True, I had someone else build my PC as it was far easier then trying to do it myself(with my Asperger’s Syndrome there was no way in a million years I could build my own PC)

      • Il Palazzo-sama

        “I don’t get why the PC market is so against making cheaper and more convenient pre-made gaming PC as that would be so useful.”

        The market for the general public doesn’t do that, but there should be a handful of specialized companies providing those.
        In my country, one of the top companies quality-wise is selling premade
        gaming PCs starting at 550€ (440 if you’re willing to buy a computer
        without OS) If you want the best bang for your money (/r/buildapc, …), they will as well assemble your custom PC for 40 €. (gratis
        if you snipe frequent promotions)

        “PC gaming isn’t convenient for us left handed people”

        Being a touchtyper on non-QWERTY derived layout, I can somewhat relate to that. (even when presents are done right to manage my layout, I still need to move the keys from the equivalents of WASD to ESDF)
        It’s not a major hurdle, but a recurring minor annoyance.
        Now it’s not perfect with consoles either, with buttons changing places and meaning from a console to another, and depending on the genre or intended market. (gotta love those “Cross to validate, Square to go back” Japanese games)

    • i’ve found that some games took longer to install on Steam then on a console, Alpha Protocol took several hours in install on Steam, which is so far longer then any console game.

      • Thanatos

        Not sure what you mean. Alpha Protocol installed just fine for me. It was a pretty big game for the time, so maybe that’s what you meant? Installing from a disk is always going to be faster…..

        • I did install it on disk years ago and that was pretty fast, but downloading it from Steam itself took quite a bit longer for some reason.

          • Thanatos

            What are you trying to say exactly with these vague accounts? Steam game download speed is pretty static across every title. Why wouldn’t it be? They’re just moving data. So if you’re trying to say it’s slower you’re saying that Steam file distribution download speed was slower, which many reports contradict.

          • Just stating my own experiences, if you don’t believe me that’s your problem, not mine.

          • Thanatos

            “Just stating my own experiences”

            Oh, are you now.

            “Total Biscuit himself has said this”
            “Jim himself was unable”
            “Jim ran into that problem”
            “Jim tried reinstalling”

            It seems you’ve been just trying to construct an argument using other people’s experiences.

          • Not really no you fucking moron.

    • I’ve never had that many problems downloading anything on Xbox.

      I’ve had some PC games make me jump through ridiculous hoops to install them, like the Delta Force Xtreme games, they forced me to sign up for a Novalogic account before it would let me play them, which was fucking ridiculous.

      • Thanatos

        It’s not even about “having problems downloading” but the sheer number of steps you have to do before you can start a game. On a PC now it’s one – start an installation on Steam, and wait until it’s done downloading, installing, and patching everything. Then you start the game. And the installation is actually efficient by a company that knows how to move and copy data, unlike games as described above.

        “they forced me to sign up for a Novalogic account before it would let me play them”

        Microsoft forced me to make an Xbox Live account to play things, so I guess they’re even.

        • It’s not that many steps at all, for me it’s just “insert game into disc drive on Xbox and wait for install to finish, then start game” that’s literally it.

          • Thanatos

            You forgot to get the free day one DLC. And do a system update.

          • Day one DLC downloads so fast for me it barely qualifies as a step, and I can’t even remember the last time I had to download a system update for my Xbox One(wouldn’t be a big deal anyways, system updates for the 360 were always really fast)

        • Xbox Live at least gives you actual fucking benefits though, so I was fine with signing up, I signed up for XBL because I wanted to, Novalogic is fucking useless and I only signed up to it because I was forced to do so, huge difference.

          • Thanatos

            ” I only signed up to it because I was forced to do so, huge difference.”

            I only made an Xbox Live account because I was forced to do so.

        • Steam installs have actually taken me longer then installs on consoles.

          • Thanatos

            For the same game? Unlikely. Steam’s servers routinely provide faster download speeds than the console people.

          • Maybe for you, but not for me, you probably have better internet then I do.

          • Thanatos

            You know that doesn’t matter, right? If you get a max of 1 MB/s download then that’s what you’d be getting from all places.

  • Germanicus

    I’m on 200 meg broadband and it still took over 2 hours to download Rise of the Tomb Raider on PS4 at the weekend, tried it over wifi, LAN cable, nothing made it go any quicker. I just don’t see where the bottleneck is on Sony’s network.

  • 09philj

    Nintendo still tries to hold up this particular ideal on 3DS. Their games still have to download and install, which doesn’t take too long, and minor patches and updates will generally need to be installed, but it all works fairly well.

    • Nintendo may currently be the best of the big companies at releasing games already polished/not needing a huge day one patch.

      • superbattler

        Nintendo has always seemed a bit behind sony and microsoft, so at least this time it works out in our favor 🙂

      • 09philj

        The actual game design may be patchy, but they do run.

      • Benj

        They do have the slight advantage of mostly just releasing the same 5 of 6 games over and over again with different frills and bonnets…

        Although now I think about it the Ubisoft-open-world-collectathon-game are some of the worst optimised games out there and that’s the only thing they make now.

        • But what is EA’s excuse, then?

        • InfamousDS

          It isn’t quite as “copy and paste” as Ubisoft, or CoD though.

          Take Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask, for instance. Same game engine (mostly recycled models even), same core game play loop, similar upgrades and music, but vastly (and I do mean vastly) different themes and even some new mechanics to take advantage of systems OoT didn’t know what to do with. Majora’s was one of the first 3D games to have emergent game play in the form of time management and side-quests related to it.
          Or the Metroid Prime Series. One different or new mechanic in each entry (1 had FPS game play which was a novelty at the time, 2 had ammo counters, parallel worlds, and new traversal systems, 3 had Phazon control and planet hopping), but thanks to well-designed levels and excellent pacing they each feel different to play.
          Or New Super Mario Bros and Super Mario 3D World. Both are fast-paced multiplayer platformers, but the perspective change and some minor differences in the game play loop allowed them to be some pretty different games.

          I could go on, but I won’t because this is starting to sound a Nintendo Defense Argument.

          • Benj

            I agree, Nintendo almost always puts in enough new stuff into their games to be worth playing even if they can be a bit gimicky.

            I just can’t resist the urge to tease the Nintendo faithful.

      • Not for me they aren’t, the fact that the NX is only five months away and we still barely know a damn thing about it is not a good sign at all, plus they still stupidly engage in region-locking.

        • Oh yes, Region-locking, the most infamous sign of an unpolished product.

          • Jim has called Nintendo out for being stuck in the past numerous times, region-locking at this point is just stupid. Plus let’s not forgot how Nintendo loves to copyright claim Youtube videos for no good reason unlike Sony or MS.

          • Yes, by specifying they were good at having their products be polished at release, I pretended all those points were negated. Sure

          • They aren’t always polished though, the Wii U version of Mighty No 9 is very prone to crashing.

          • did you just use Mighty Nº 9 as an example? unironically?

          • Well it is the glitchiest version of the game, so yeah. Haven’t played the game myself so I can’t comment on whether the game is shit or not, but it sure looks like it is.

          • It is also a third party game infamous for howpoorly handled it was. It is more likely Nintendo had no saying in the games polish

    • Paul Avers

      Heck, on the Wii U side of things, if you’re playing a game off a disk and there’s a patch for it it’ll give you the option of just saying eff it and booting the version of the game that’s on the disk anyway. Although I don’t think I’ve ever had a patch take more than a few minutes to download and install on the eShop, so I usually just let it go.

    • Thanatos

      It’s pretty much the same. When I got Phoenix Wright 6 it was the first time I’d taken my 3DS online in maybe a year. I had to do the sad procession of system update -> store update -> hook up “Nintendo ID” -> reinput credit card info -> navigate clunky store -> slow download of game -> renavigate clunky store to find and get the free DLC.

      The same sad experience.

  • Artemiy

    I just was reading your article on NMS refunds… Here’s an idea: could it be that this time tries to snatch more “play time” so that less people request a refund? Just a thought.

    • Max Whiteley

      Can’t get refunds on Xbox….. It says it in massive block capitals as you buy a game.

      • Artemiy

        Wait, XBox store is “no-refund-policy”?

        • Max Whiteley

          Yeah big block capitals.

          It’s a lie mind you as my mates kid decided to by him halo 5 when he wasn’t looking and they refunded him for it. But I hear it’s a very difficult thing to get, the elusive Microsoft refund.

  • Artemiy

    Here’s a strange thought: with MS’s effort to build UWP and release the games both on Win10 and XB1, could it be that MS wants to move from console gaming to PC gaming?

  • Jiryn

    Fully agree, I’ve fallen for the “Fake Ready” so many times.
    In fact, there were a few games that I’ve purchased that show the download was complete, only to find out that was only the initial download of 5-10GBs, only to have the meat of the game still downloading in the background, or waiting to be downloaded after I started the game up.

    On the PS4, I’ve notice that things seem to download faster when set in “Rest Mode” but I use my console as a media device, so that regularly interferes with any downloads and etc sadly.

  • Dave Dogge

    It pissed me off only today, I haven’t played on my PS4 in just over a week and I get a system update which I have to get through before I browse on the Sony Store. Also I installed a 2TB drive on my PS4 and it was almost full of
    crap and I had to get rid of the crap naming no names (No Man’s Sky). Anyone know when I can fit 5TB drives on my PS4 ?

  • deiseach

    Yes, yes, thrice yes! I have been wondering whether I have to turn on my Xbox One every morning even if I don’t want to play a game to ensure it is updated so that it is ready when I do want to play a game. Insane.

  • Max Whiteley

    Yeah, nail on the head really.

    I would disagree that the Scorpio proves that console generations are shorter as that’s scheduled to come out in 2017 which is 4 years after, remember we did have a monstrous last generation and it was the PS2 that came out before that remember.
    The ps2 is so popular that people would have happily kept playing it until the games litterally exploded it, so that being an unusually long cycle was explained by its mind blowing popularity.

    I like where Microsofts going with the one I really do. I litterally have hundreds of games that I brought years ago just given to me, for free, yes ps4 owners, we don’t have to pay for games we already owned, and we get very deep sales on these awful Xbone ports that are the true spoiler of this console generation. (But that’s at the publishers discretion)

    The Xbox one truly is the one and only device they originally promised. It’s every Xbox I’ve ever owned rolled into one.

    Despite its glaring flaws and being the lesser of the two (fuck Nintendo) consoles, it’s Microsoft actually keeping their promises that make my personal winner of this generation the bone, it’s still wank, it’s still slow and ugly, but fuck me Microsoft try their fuckin hardest to keep its customers happy, and after a shitty first 2 years with the console, I finally feel it’s earnt it’s price tag, I finally feel like a satisfied customer!

    Sony on the other hand I don’t see much going for them, another generation another 17 quid on final fantasy 7…. That’s the straw that broke the camels back for me with Sony.

    • Jiryn

      Um, Scorpio is not a new generation.
      It’s still an Xbox One, and part of the XB1 console.

      It’s an interim upgrade to try and chase the 4K fad, kind of like when they chased the Motion Control, and VR fads.

      • Max Whiteley

        I didn’t say it was a new generation…. Jim did.

        That’s a very cynical view of it, the PS4 pro looks like an interim upgrade and The Xbox one S Despite it being the best console on the market at the moment.
        But the Scorpio, if Microsoft keep their promises, will be a large upgrade.

        • Jiryn

          Eh, I don’t see where the XB1S Is the best console on the market.
          I like it more than the original XB1, but I am still more fond of the PS4. (Yes, I was one of the people who traded up from my XB1 to S)

          As for the Scorpio, yea it’s supposedly going to be a significant upgrade.. but Microsoft is also on record saying that unless you have a 4K television, there is no point in purchasing the console.

          • Max Whiteley

            Yeah that was a very daft thing to say. We all know the power difference between the two will show even if you don’t own a 4K tv. You don’t know how much you miss anti aliasing until it’s not there, and you don’t need a 4K tv to see the difference that will have.

            Yeah, I stand firm when I say it’s the best on the market atm, for someone who doesn’t own a ps4 or bone I personally would recommend the S as it currently has the best value and slightly better video output.
            (Now some really biased stuff not facts lol)
            a much better controller and Xbox live as a service is also great value for money (seeing as though we have to pay it anyway I might as well use it as a plus point) and just miles ahead of ps plus when it comes to community and playing games with your mates.

          • Jiryn

            Personally, the PS4 controller is much more comfortable.
            The XB1’s controller is good, but the shoulder buttons are a pain for some.

            I will admit, I dislike the touch pad and integration of motion controls on the PS4 however.

            Performance and image quality are still better on the PS4. Most games put out a higher resolution and better frame rate on the PS4, according to Digital Foundry’s findings.

          • Max Whiteley

            It does support HDR yes.

            Swings and roundabouts, the ps4 duel shock is miles better than the PS3 duel shock that’s something we can all agree on!
            And the ps4s menus are just…..beautiful, I dont know why I like them……. I just do lol.

            With the consoles it simply comes down to software. Do you like halo or uncharted?

          • Aisha clanclan

            Correct why do I love PS4 over Xbox ?
            The Xbox does not have persona 5 and many other games I love .

          • PS4 dosen’t have Gears 4, Re-Core, Halo 5, Dead Rising 3, Quantum Break and many other games I love.

          • Aisha clanclan

            More power to you friend their not my taste I’m more uncharted , final fantasy , last of us ,gravity rush and lots of Japanese games you have never heard of .

          • I do like Gravity Rush and Last of Us, but i’m not big on JRPGs(let’s just I agree with Yahtzee’s criticisms of them).

          • Aisha clanclan

            Love Yahtzee but don’t take him to seriously he’s more for fun.
            I love his demons souls video he was one of many people that misunderstood that game until dark souls came.
            I also want to punch that guy as he invented the PC master race memes and I hate that term.

          • I don’t blame him for that term, he said it as a joke, it’s not his fault some arrogant PC assholes took that term way too seriously.

          • Aisha clanclan

            I know but it does not make it any less irritating.
            I could alway do a jay and slient bob trick find these PC assholes beat them up .
            I Love that bit of the film .

          • Max Whiteley

            Has persona 5 been released? It said to drop on 15th of September but I’ve heard nothing about it so far. Especially with the hype surrounding the game I would have expected more…… Or am I just looking in the wrong places?

          • Aisha clanclan

            It releases in Feb 2017 but its already out in Japan as the PS4 is region free you can play it now if you can read Japanese .
            Lots of fun.

          • Aisha clanclan

            It got good reviews in Japan .

          • Max Whiteley

            Cool, looks like an interesting game. I’ve never played any of the others.

          • Aisha clanclan

            I love that series the music , the art style ,the story and combat are amazing
            It does stuff no other game does .
            just YouTube a song callec persona 4 reach out for the truth and you will get why I love it so much .

          • Max Whiteley

            I can dig that tune, reminds me of a light band maid.

          • I find the Xbox One’s controller more comfortable.

          • Jiryn

            I admit, I loved the 360’s over the PS3’s controller.

            Though most of the XB1 is better, the shoulders don’t feel as good at times.

          • CaitSeith

            I don’t know how you can recommend Scorpio if no one has ever played anything on it yet. If anyone hasn’t yet decided in getting a Scorpio or a PS4 Pro, it’s better to follow Super Bunnyhop’s suggestion: wait, just wait.

          • Max Whiteley

            Ermmm…. I think u got the wrong end of the stick, I was recommending the Xbox one S not the Scorpio.

            Yeah I’m very much in the same boat as you on waiting to see before I start making wild claims. (Unless it’s VR, which I always will say will fail on the mainstream.)

          • Aisha clanclan

            Good advice we have not seen any new games that will use the new consoles power not even one screenshot.

          • Max Whiteley

            No ones recommended the Scorpio!

        • Aisha clanclan

          To me the Scorpio is pointless I don’t have 4K TV not many people do and I’m not sure that will change next year when it releases .
          To me the Scorpio is going down the same road the PS3 did on release if the rumours on price are true.

          • Max Whiteley

            Oh yeah I completely agree with you that it seems to be on the same road as the PS3 because of the increasing price point.

            But the Scorpio will not be pointless if you don’t own a 4K. I know nothing about computers but even I know that adding that much power will make a difference. Plus the addition of anti aliasing means no more jaggedness, which has been the biggest put off for me this generation, if we’re speaking about graphics anyway.

          • Aisha clanclan

            Also it’s making the same mistake the Xbox one did it need to be a games console not a TV box .

          • Max Whiteley

            I dunno, the Xbox one is actually a very very good service packaged I a very bad console.

            You won’t need a 4K to see the difference between the two consoles, just them saying it has anti aliasing just confirms that…. No more jagged edges or weird looking shiney things( I’m looking at you dragon age 3)
            Your not going to need a 4 k to see that….. It’s not worth 700 quid…. Not in a million years, but if your like me and are quite patient , the cost isn’t much of an issue if you wait a year and buy second hand.

          • Aisha clanclan

            It make me annoyed people are judging new consoles no one see in action .
            And mocking the ps pro everything promised on the Scorpio could be bollocks a lot of the promises on the Xbox one where bare faced lies .
            We all remember angry joe catching major nelson lying .
            I can’t say it’s bad console it just I don’t trust MS and the games on the console are not to my taste .

            To be honest I’m more excited about the Nintendo NX .

          • Max Whiteley

            Taste is taste, we are all allowed taste.
            They wernt lies, no body liked the original plans for the Xbox one, Microsoft responded by fucking those plans off and putting energy into treating it’s xbl subscribers really really well. I can’t remember it ever going down so far also which I see people saying on the internet but I have never experienced it. maybe because I’m at work all day who knows.

            Yeah I’m excited to see what the NX has to offer. The thing with Nintendo is there software. I think people don’t mind playing Nintendo games on a bad console because of their Games franchises. Halo will never have the pull of Mario. It’s a pity they seem self bent on failure.

            I hope they pull it round.

          • Max Whiteley

            I forgot to say, I agree people saying the Scorpio is this and that are just buying to hype.

            What happened to angry Joe?

          • Aisha clanclan

            Before the release of Xbox one not the Scorpio joe interviewed Major Nelson from MS at a show and asked surely the always online restrictions could be removed with a patch or something?
            MS reply was it was impossible as it was part of how the console worked .
            2 days later MS announced it was going to be removed showing MS had lied .

            All credit to joe where most critics sat in their comfortable house or office moaning but doing nothing .
            joe went out and was cheeky enough to do something about it and show them up .
            That why I don’t trust MS .

          • Max Whiteley

            I dunno, saying there outright lying. One bloke said one thing that wasn’t correct, it was a mistake, he makes a lot of them. it’s harsh just to assume their lying. What would they gain from lying?

    • Aisha clanclan

      I have to disagree MS had to change all its promises as they where so unpopular it nearly killed the console .
      Always online , no right to own and trade games Kinect support that does not even work on the new Xbox silm without an adapter .
      MS only promise at the moment is 4K which we have to wait and see if they can deliver it.
      For me Sony did the most important two things they did not try to screw my rights over and they do games I like simple.
      Forget gaming politics the most important thing is games and that boils down to opinion and taste.

      But if you enjoy your Xbox I have no right to take that from you .

    • RifleAvenger Sashiro

      I’d rather keep to a 6-7 year cycle than the 4 year cycle we had in the 90’s. Lack of rapid obsolescence is basically the one thing keeping consoles away from being literally shit PCs at this point (and computers are getting less futzy about that too).

      I’m not sure how much I believe that the XB1 is truly past compatible with every XB and XB360 title, but if that’s true and other companies follow suit it eases on the harm of shorter cycles. Sony not having ported the massive PS3 digital library to PS4 yet, and seemingly not planning to, is one of my biggest knocks against the system. Not because it affects me (all my old consoles going back to the SNES, EXCEPT my 360, still run perfectly), but because I’ve seen it dissuade three separate people from buying the system. All would be new to Sony consoles, and were hoping for a system that would let them play all the games they’ve missed since PS1. Most went to PC instead (hey, emulators!).

      Also, while I prefer it to Sony’s recent arrogance, I don’t see Microsoft’s efforts as anything more than an act. Sony did the same thing when it fell behind in the PS3/360 generation, and Microsoft’s efforts are only more extreme because their opening hand for the console nearly killed it.

      • Max Whiteley

        It’s on it’s way, there slowly adding games, it’s always a 360 game though, no outright backwards compatibly with OGXB, but the 360 had enough ports of the OGXB to keep people satisfied, and there adding so many more than I ever expect them to add.
        Every month they add two from the 360 and give you them for the price of XB Live.

        The Xbox one was awful when it was released. That’s why I brought a ps4. But Sony asking me to buy ff7 for a third time was to much, I don’t care what they say they have done to it, it’s the same.

        I would like to have a decent gaming PC but space is an issue for me, and having a tower and a monitor and what not takes up more room than I have. Consoles take up so much less room, I think that is there ultimate selling point really.

      • Sony can’t make PS3 titles backwards compatible on the PS4 thanks to their stupidly overcomplicated Cell Processor on the former, I knew that thing was going to bite them in the ass one of these days. Even back in the day lots of devs complained about how difficult it was to program for the PS3 compared to the 360, which resulted in the 360 versions of games being superior and PS3 versions sometimes being badly crippled by loading times(I.E. Fallout 3, Bayonetta)

  • Frank

    Amen Brother.
    Even if you are setting the game up from a Blue Ray Disc it often takes an obscene amount of time.That and the massive hunger for
    gigs coupled with the ridiculously undersized hard drives disgruntled me a lot with the new console generation.
    Seems every big expactacion has got to be disapointed.
    Remembers me of time, when the CD-ROM arrived and we thought that with all this amount of space on it, the need for massive installations would be something from the past.
    Oh how young and naive we where back then.

  • Kyle Pierce

    The moment the AAA market stopped compressing their games I started laughing. 60GB downloads as far as the eye can see. They could easily cut that in half, but nope. They don’t give a shit anymore. Throw a virus or two in their while your at it.

  • InfamousDS

    I think pre-order culture is to blame for a lot of this behavior actually.

    Sony doesn’t care because they have 2 extra days to install before the game even works, so the user doesn’t notice unless they are paying attention. Microsoft may be the same way.
    Publishers don’t care because there are no more hard data limits, and digital downloads are “supposed” to have already happened by launch day. Why bother taking the effort and manpower to make games as small as possible when you can just patch in the files the console wouldn’t let you include in the store/disc version. Tough luck if you don’t pre-order, maybe next time you will to avoid this headache, capische?
    Most buyers don’t care because they didn’t have to go to the store and they can do other things during the install if it happens to run into launch day. As well as getting phat digital lewt for buying in advance.

    It’s a sad state of affairs.

    • Haha, no

      Not that it matters to them if we notice, because they’ve got your money already.

  • aimei66

    Forget mobile, it seems the games industry itself is the biggest risk to console gaming!

  • goodbyejojo

    i dont know why but the cobra theme song from the gi joe movie seems fitting for a pc master race theme

  • Bashtarle

    So pretty much everything I’ve been observing since the original Xbox. It has been one hell of a toboggan ride.

  • I see you mentioned TWO EA games, Jim. Thus the logical conclusion is that you made this video… as a way to attack EA before Battlefield 1 came out to hurt it’s sales, since you hate the game

  • Jiryn

    As I said in a reply.
    The XB1 Scorpio is NOT a new generation, just an interim upgrade. The system is still part of the XB1 family, and will play every game the XB1 can, and will have no to very few exclusive games… kind of like the New 3DS handheld. (Nintendo really needs to work on their naming conventions and branding)

    There still will be a new generation, starting with the NX. Generations are traditionally 5-6yrs in length, with the only consoles not falling into this pattern are the Dreamcast and NX. The NX coming out just a few months shy of 5yrs.

    There will be a newer, more powerful generation Xbox, and Playstation. All the games of which on that generation will not be backwards compatible with the previous gens hardware, but thankfully, due to modern architecture, most if not all games should be forward compatible.

    • Thanatos

      Yeah, just like the new 3DS is just an interim upgrade? Different hardware means someone could make a game that only runs on Scorpio, just like there’s games that only run on a new 3DS.

      That means a new hardware gen.

      • Chaltab

        It really doesn’t. A marginal upgrade to hardware using the same architecture, controllers, and OS doesn’t constitute a new generation.

        • Jiryn

          Thank you!

          • Nobody’s Fanboy

            Exactly. The world’s simplest litmus test for “Is it a new generation?”: Can the current system play
            the new system’s games?

            If yes, it’s a mid-cycle upgrade…which is
            nothing new, they’ve been doing it since the NES days, usually to take
            advantage of cheaper or better refined components, but occasionally also
            for a small performance boost.

            If no, it’s a new generation.

            The only place where semantics games come into play is stuff like the 32X, where it can’t play games by itself but the system it piggy backs on can’t play its games without it.

        • Max Whiteley

          Is it even possible to have a new generation?

          I think we have reached a point where the tech is Costing the manufactures such a daft amount of money to create, yet it only makes a minimal amount of difference.
          It’s not a wise buisness move to sink so much into something they have no way back from, it seems far to risky from my point of view.

          • Chaltab

            Eh… Recently, nVidia and AMD have come out with newer cards that are super cheap for their level of power. I mean I still think we’re a good five or six years away from a real new generational leap in consoles, but I don’t think it’s impossible.

          • Anton

            I think that if MS and Sony stick to requiring that any new game be playable on XB1 or PS4, then we are a long way away from anything resembling a generational shift.

          • Max Whiteley

            Yeah tech and time love each other. Who knows, certainly not me lol

          • Jiryn

            Very easily.
            The next gen will be a leap in hardware with exclusive games that cannot be played on the previous/older hardware.. simple as that.

            Basically, take the highest end computer we have right now, which is what.. 2x, 3x a PS4, maybe more, maybe less.. and make that the standard.. with games that run base 4k, 30-60FPS, which for the most part cannot run on the PS4/XB1.

            Though, overlap is insane this gen. I’ve never seen the previous gen hang on so long, with so many simultaneous releases.

          • Max Whiteley

            Fair point.

        • Thanatos

          I wouldn’t hold the architecture or OS as the differentiating factors. That’s like saying Apple didn’t make a new iPad generation because the old one could upgrade iOS versions.

      • Jiryn

        As Chaltab said, it’s not a full new generation.
        Their will be very few, if any, Scorpio exclusive games.. Microsoft and Sony even said all games released from her on out will be playable on both consoles with no exclusives, how long that will hold true is another story.

        The DSi was another interim generation/upgrade. It had a handful of exclusive games for the system and was marginally more powerful than the DS/DS Lite, but the true next handheld generation was the 3DS.

        Both Sony and Microsoft have said that the Pro and Scorpio are part of their current gen respective families, they are just an updated, more powerful version to handle new technology like 4K and HDR(?) color range.

        • Thanatos

          The Playstation 2 was a new generation despite running all PS1 games while people continued to make PS1 games. Nintendo can say whatever they want because they constantly lie about this. They said the DS wasn’t replacing the GBA, they said the 3DS wasn’t replacing the DS (and both were backwards compatible). Yet we all know what happened.

          If there is ANY game made that is Scorpio only, it’s a new generation. That’s the definition of a new generation – hardware that runs exclusive games. Microsoft has also been quite cagy in their denials of Scorpio exclusive games, and why wouldn’t they, there’s no reason not to make exclusive games for it if they want to sell the damn thing.

          • They wouldn’t be stupid enough to make exclusive games for it, they’ve been very clear that they will not do that.

          • Thanatos

            Microsoft has been very clear about a lot of things over the years that turned out to not be true.

          • Scorpio is mainly for people that want 4K quality, it’s not a brand new console, it’s merely an upgraded version of an existing one, so it having exclusives is what would truly make no sense from a business perspective, as the last console upgrade to try that-the Sega 32 X, was trashed mercilessly and quickly forgotten, and i’m sure MS does not want to be remembered alongside that failure of a console.

            Microsoft has been outselling Sony for the past three months, there’s no way they’re going to risk blowing that momentum.

  • The system has to be able to stream 1080p video. It sounds like maybe it took as long to download the game as it would’ve taken to watch it if it was all video. It sounds crazy that games are that large, but it feels about right. I think I almost don’t play games anymore, because when I see Gigabytes, it just freaks me out. It’s too much of a commitment.

    In a true streaming model, you wouldn’t have all those Gigabytes just squatting on your harddrive, because they’d be gone when you are done, or only the data around where you are in your play sessions would be resident. I just feel lots of anxiety about that, even though I have a couple Terabyte drives for things like DVR backup that are nowhere near used. Unfortunately they cannot be shared.

    Back of the envelope theoretical limit for a Gigabit LAN is shy of a half-Terabyte per hour. It could be whatever is the font of the individual games that are at issue. If the box is throttled, it’s most likely throttled at a rate that can service 1080p video.

  • Coldar

    One thing not mentioned where consoles have the advantage..? And yes, this will probably get me a lot of hate: Trophy/achievements.

    Now, I get Steam has that too – its too new, PCs are too volatile… I have zilch confidence that data will still be linked to me, much less current with new games, in ten years time.

    Why trophies? Because that shit *matters* – I’ve been gaming a *loooooooong* time. Since I was four, when my mom had to read the text dialogues to me. I’m 32 now. Some people can’t tell you what they had for breakfast yesterday.

    Do you know how long I spent playing some NES games? Exploring every crevice, 100%ing over a month? Today, if I didn’t still have every video game I’ve ever bought over the last 30 years, I couldn’t even tell you I owned 90% of them.

    I’ll be damned if I’m spending two weeks on a game, or thirty hours on some ridiculous task, for that to fade away forevermore.

    Trophies mean, in another thirty years, I can go somewhere and say, “Hey, yeah, shit, I did do that!” it also provides a historical record, where I can see what I was doing when date and time wise. For example? My mom died last December. I can forever know that FFx2-HD was the last game I played while she was alive with me. Creed Syndicate: Jack DLC the first I played after she died. That stuff is important, to me.

    Consoles offer a stable, near guaranteed promise that all my time gaming ain’t a 100% loss to be lost to the ravages of memory in a few years, but should at least endure for as long as I am alive – and stay current with new games far into the future. For that, above many others, is why I switched back to consoles from PC exclusively between 95-2004. (Like, do you know how many thousands of hours I spent on Everquest? In the top raid guild for years, from launch to Luclin? All those raid firsts and item discoveries, are already lost to time – that sucks.)

    • Thanatos

      Huh? Steam achievements are tied to your account, and they’ve been around for over 5 years. And the other digital distribution places like GoG and Origin have them too.

      There is nothing more “permanent” about your Xbox Live account vs your Steam account.

      • Anton

        If one wanted to be nitpicky, one could point out that Steam achievements don’t activate if the Steam overlay happens to be off.

        • Thanatos

          And Playstation achievements never get synced to your account if you never log in online………………… Steam achievements work in offline mode.

      • Coldar

        Tied to your account, yes – what I meant is that PC gaming is hardly some monolithic, overriding platform for achievements. You can buy a game on Steam, or retail, or probably many competitors to Steam – and, I assume, only if you pay and play on Steam is your progress tracked and tied to one personal account.

        But more importantly, five years… great…? My point was/is Steam is far from stable or guaranteed moving forward. A competitor could rise tomorrow, they could get sold, or simply alter/remove achievements completely.

        PS and MS both are controlling of their achievement infrastructure – there’s consistency between games, short digitals without a Platinum, retails with – all similar in point structure. And the lengths a good many go to to get those trophies, neither company is doing away with them.

        Yet bottom dollar, my primary point of contention: 15 years from now, I feel pretty damn sure Sony will be around in gaming. 15 years from now, I hardly feel that way about Steam – if PCs keep going the way they are and 99% of casual folks use mobile over desktop, Google Play, Apple Store and Microsoft’s “app front” could all run Steam out of business tomorrow. And, so long as Sony is around, I also feel pretty damn safe that my trophies will be in 15, too – that had been my main point, that you apparently misunderstood.

        • Yeah people are getting real sick of Steam allowing any hack with a computer to publish a “game” which is little more then a collection of stolen Unity assets, getting a game on Steam used to mean something, now it means nothing. It took Steam way too long to kick Digital Homicide off, and there’s still dozens of devs that are just as terrible that are still around.

          There has never been a console game as bad as anything DH has released.

    • Anton

      Now, if only the “achievements” meant something.

      These days, the achievements in an average game are:

      “Congrats, you found the main menu!”
      “Completed mandatory training level!”
      “You did that other thing we forced you to do!”
      “Way to go, you died!”

      Most achievements make me think that the people creating them were using the word “achieve” in a purely sarcastic sense.

      Also Steam has the same exact trophies as console games.

      • I feel like achievement mean something, I enjoy getting some of them.

      • Maybe artists are angry about Sony’s supposedly mandating use of the things. I know I’d be. Those infernal pop-ups are antithetical to everything art stands for.

      • Coldar

        Yeah, no, absolutely – devs often dick around with them. A few times you’ll find stuff like that; or worse still, trophies forced on some visual novel/walking simulator that totally should *NOT* have achievements – but even so, I’d rather a few games that shouldn’t have them do so, than be faced with possibly many games I love -not- having them when it is up to devs whether or not to include them.

        For example, beyond the Wii-U sucking hardcore, the main reason mine collects dust is I’m just not getting involved in a game I’m not deeply passionate about nowadays without trophies. I’m not taking 20-30 hours, beating it, then in five years never remembering I played it. Obviously, I’m in the minority there – but c’est la vie.

        I’d kill for my old Zeldas or Super Metroids to have had trophies tied in back then. For one thing, I’m a hardcore completionist – every Super Mario World playthrough of mine? I always, *always* 100% – every damn door/path/level unlocked. Super Mario 64? Same deal – 120 stars always, or else.

        So you know what, pointless trophies be damned, I’ll take it – so long as the unique, “Hey, you just beat the game, MFer! Gold trophy for you!” Happens, I’m happy. It means in ten years I can look back, and know I did indeed play that title all the way through. I also like it when there are trophies associated with difficulty – if I insane mode outlast, you damn sight better believe I’d better get notice for that.

        Like Jim, I’m a hardcore Silent Hill fanatic. I’m eagerly anticipating when I’ll get the balls to do a 100% Silent Hill 2 run – a nearly impossible feat. But when I do, that virtual mark on my virtual account? It’ll mean as much to me as any f’ing physical trophy made of 24k gold and diamonds. I worship that series, and to know I did something few others did/can? Epic.

        I do think someone is missing out here on a veritable goldmine – especially for Retro/classic gaming…? Are you kidding me?! Think of all the insane “challenges” bored people have dreamt up over the years. I’m not talking speedruns, but rather, like beating Zelda with three hearts and a wood sword or some shit. I really wish they’d veer more into that territory, where the achievement forces you to pull off an insanely difficult task that you otherwise probably wouldn’t even think of. All the classic Zelda, Metroid or Castlevania… Final Fantasies, Dragon Quests and Warriors, JRPGs and more? That’d be really fucking cool in my estimation.

        Sadly, some *coughloserscough* have just become obsessed with their game scores or PSN levels. They buy and play Barbie’s Super Dream Castle Explosion, or My Little Pony Galores, to “get an easy Plat” – so long as that obsession exists with completing all achievements, and people pay to do so, you’ll never have a market where insane difficulties of some challenge trophies mean never getting all 100% of possible rewards. But Nintendo, at least, could do something like that – and are fools if they don’t exploit just that with the NX and their classic games library (that they further dick people around into buying again and again for $10 for a 30 year old game for every damn new console. At least adding this, they could have an excuse to making everyone buy everything they already own on the Virtual Console all over again come the NX.)

    • I totally get that, I was sad when I lost my first gamertag due to my 360 failing(had been gaming on the 360 for four years since 2006 that point)so I had to get a brand-new gamertag, but i’ve had it for six years now and i’m amazed at seeing how many games i’ve completed.

      • RifleAvenger Sashiro

        Was it not an Xbox Live gamertag? Because otherwise the tag should of been recoverable, even if the game save data was not.

        • no it was just a normal tag, I didn’t get Xbox Live until I got better internet years later.

  • Arella Jardin

    The digital download speeds are ridiculous, and I’m hoping the Pro and Scorpio address this, at least on the consumer side. Both companies could do more to improve their servers, though Xbox servers seem a little better, perhaps because MS originally wanted to run games partially from the servers this gen.

    Of course, the PC’s better download speeds are just hiding the underlying problems. No more compression, obscenely large day one patches, and so on.

    However, I don’t mind the need to install itself, since games just got too huge to play from the disc. And installing from disc is still not that bad, usually, and most games will download the day one patch at the same time. From disc, the worst I’ve put up with is two hours, and usually it’s more like 45 minutes.

    Which is another thing to consider. PC users have mostly resigned themselves to digital download for all their games, while a majority of console users still prefer physical discs. And while Steam has better and more frequent sales, console users can sell their games and purchase used.

    I don’t think consoles have quite crossed the line into irrelevancy… yet. Console players and PC players are governed by different psychologies. PC players want versatility and options, console players just want simplicity. With a foot in both communities, I’ve seen PC players turn their noses up at weaker graphics on console games, but the console players just don’t care. As long as it’s pretty, it’s good enough, they don’t worry too much about locked fps and such. I’ve recommended to my console friends some of TB’s videos for cross platform games, and they come back to me baffled that he spends 10 minutes at the start talking about menu options. It’s a very different mentality, and Sony and MS need to be care full they don’t forget that as they keep creeping closer to the PC experience.

    • Take a spin around any article talking about indie games (or Nintendo) on a site like IGN, and you’ll see that console gamers care plenty about graphics.

      • Anton

        Only when their console is better.

      • Chaltab

        Console *warriors* care about graphics. I doubt the majority of consumers even know the PS4 has more gigaflops than XBOX1.

        • Aisha clanclan

          Minecraft end of discussion lol
          But I remember critics asking why are MS selling their console in teraflops as it not an accurate way to measure a console power .

          • Janio

            I remember critics saying Steam OS will be way better the Microsoft. Now I nolonger take there wishdoms with pince of salt.

        • I know that and I don’t care, sometimes Xbox One versions of games are superior to PS4 ones, cause sometimes they come with free copies of last-gen games(I.E. Just Cause 3, Fallout 4).

      • Kyle Pierce

        I grew up with consoles & my last console was a Wii. I opted out of this generation because it pretty much went full retard. Sony & Microsoft going on about “HARDWARE, GRAPHICS, MULTIPLAYER, MICROTRANSACTIONS, DLC! DUR HUR DUR!” & Nintendo’s sitting in the corner playing with it’s Wii U, feeling sorry for itself.

        This whole thing started with the 360 & PS3, when Microsoft marketing HD as “The Future of Gaming”. Man, what a bright future we live in now, huh?

        • This generation is pretty awesome, like Gavin Dunne has said, we’ve really been spoiled with great games this gen.

          • Kyle Pierce

            Besides Bloodborne, Witcher 3 & Dark Souls 3 as well as a few Indie & Nintendo titles I honestly don’t see a lot of “great” games coming from the “AAA” market. Mostly subpar or average ones that are just appealing to the masses with repetitive meaningless tasks & milking them dry with DLC & MT’s. Even worse is that last years GOTY from most standards was MGS:V, a game that wasn’t even fucking finished. Sorry, but if an unfinished product is the new GOTY material then that’s some low fucking standards.

          • I think there’s lots more- Fallout 4, Watch Dogs, Just Cause 3, GTA V, Shadow Warrior, Dead Rising 3, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, Sunset Overdrive, Halo 5, Homefront Revolution, Quantum Break, The Division, Battleborn, Technomancer, Mirror’s Edge Catalyst, Mafia 3, Killzone Shadow Fall, Uncharted 4, Infamous Second Son, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Doom, Gears 4, Wolfenstein New Order, Borderlands Pre Sequel, Far Cry 4, Black Ops 3, Ghosts, Advanced Warfare, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Gravity Rush, D4, Destiny(at least one Taken King came out), Evil Within, Resident Evil Revelations 2, Metal Gear Solid V, Tales from the Borderlands, Re-Core, Dying Light, Mad Max, Arkham Knight, Alien Isolation and Life is Strange

          • Kyle Pierce

            All the games you just mentioned I would consider average, mediocre or subpar. Also, nearly all of the games you mentioned are either 3rd or 1st person shooters or action style games, those of which I am sick & tired of because they’re so commonplace nowadays, literally a dime a dozen.

          • Well that’s just your opinion, lots of people and myself love those games, personally i’m not a big Witcher or Souls fan.

            I love shooters and action games and no they are not “dime a dozen”

            Being common is not a bad thing at all.

          • Kyle Pierce

            And I bet lots of people think they’re lame & over saturating the market, as well.

          • giving by how well they’ve sold, those people are a minority.

          • Kyle Pierce

            You can’t really count statistics on people who don’t buy a product so whether they are a minority or not is really more of an unknown. You also can’t take the majority seriously since 90% of them are idiots.

          • Calling the majority “idiots” only makes you look an arrogant asshole.

          • Kyle Pierce

            If the majority wasn’t idiots then the AAA market wouldn’t be catering to them like they’re a bunch of 9 year olds.

          • It is not you fucking idiot, you sound like a 12 year old.

          • Kyle Pierce

            And yet, you’re the one throwing the tantrum.

          • Artemiy

            B-but Doom… XCom…

      • Arella Jardin

        Not to the same degree PC gamers care. Console users “prefer” 60fps, they “prefer” 1080p… but they don’t demand it, not generally. Most of them just want the game to run at a consistently smooth framerate (no stuttering or lag), and to have a good looking aesthetic. And if you get into more complex graphical considerations, like anti-aliasing or field of view, their eyes gloss over. As long as it doesn’t look bad, then it’s good enough.

        Like someone else said, the most often you’ll hear console users talk up graphics, is in comparison to another console. Mostly for bragging rights or console envy.

    • Some game installs on PC actually took longer for me then anything I installed on my Xbox(I.E. Alpha Protocol took several hours to download on Steam)

      • Aisha clanclan

        Yep try downloading WOW that’s an big ass long download.

      • Chaltab

        How many is several? Several hours for an 11GB game does seem a bit excessive.

        • about three or four hours, can’t recall any game I ever installed on my consoles taking that long.

  • SilentPony

    So…yeah. Turns out the new Console Generation was a complete load of fuck, sold on lies, gimmicks and hyper from journalism sites, and now a few years in the curtain has fallen to reveal the rotting corpse of putrefied fuck that it truly was.

    • 09philj

      Now come on, the 3DS is good, New 3DS fuck up aside.

      • Kyle Pierce

        The 3DS was basically a prototype of the N3DS. That aside, I think the N3DS is pretty kick ass but I was one who waited & didn’t buy the 3DS.

    • CaitSeith

      Or has it? Most console owners still seem oblivious to this; and most of the people who point out the problems were expecting them since beforehand.

    • not really no, like Gavin Dunne has said, we are truly spoiled in terms of games.

      • SilentPony

        Its not about being spoiled for choice, its about every promise made was blatantly untrue or has been reneged because it was too hard to implement.
        Motion Controls? Out the window.
        Improved Graphics? Nope, too hard to program and we need cross-console compatibility so no one version of a game outsells another.
        New IP? Nope, endless series of remasters and collector editions.
        Improved Loading times? See Jim’s video.
        Backwards compatibility? Not on any game worth buying again for full price.
        Better pricing now that CDs are no longer needed? Nope, $60 each and every day with no decrease over time. Also there are still CDs that simply unlock digital downloads, so you really do need constant internet to play single player games.

        • I never gave a shit about motion controls anyways, so I truly could not care less.

          I think graphics are quite a bit better actually.

          I don’t care that much about new I.P.s, as long as games are still entertaining I couldn’t give less of a fuck if they are part of an existing IP

          Xbox One has plenty of great 360 games that are BC, hell I got free download codes for all 4 Gears games with my purchase of Gears 4, plus Fallout 4 and Just Cause 3 came with free copies of Fallout 3 and Just Cause 2.

          Loading times have improved for me, many people in the comments are saying their games downloaded a lot faster then Jim’s did. I’ve certainly never encountered anything like what Jim did in the video

          Games did use to cost more then 60 dollars ya know, games were 70-80 dollars on the N64(due to Nintendo’s idiotic decision to keep using cartridges) plus i’m OK with the price as I can’t remember the last time i’ve ever paid full price for a game, i’ve always had games to trade into Gamestop for store credit, that combined with my Power-Up Rewards card and the coupons I get for redeeming my points means i’m saving quite a bit of money.

          I’ve never needed constant internet for single-player games besides quasi-MMOs like Destiny, Defiance and the Division or Quasi-MOBA’s like Battleborne, the only time I actually needed internet for games that shouldn’t require it was actually on PC for Splinter Cell Conviction, as that was Ubisoft’s stupid DRM at work.

  • Anton

    PS network has the worst download speeds. It’s bad enough that I never buy games on it any more, even the games that I WOULD prefer to play in the living room.

    Also, when Jim says “Mafia” it sounds like “Muffia” and for some reason that’s funny to me.

  • Groucho

    Don’t forget the people who have to deal with data caps on their internet service cause all those electrons are a finite resource!

  • Aisha clanclan

    Interesting video
    As much as consoles are losing their advantages against PC.
    Until PCs become more popular with casual gamers their not a threat to consoles.
    Ask a gamer why they have console the most common answers are my mates are on that console or exclusives .

    Personally I’m to lazy to learn how to look after a PCs .

    But its a bit late to bring up long download and install times yes it can be annoying but it’s problem that’s over ten years on console even on PC download and install times can be stupidly long .
    Download WOW that can be an over Three hour download .

    Also console online charges are not a fair thing to bring up as you get games with them .
    I would willing pay for PS plus on PS3 even though online play was free .
    I wonder if steam did a version of ps plus just for games how meny PCs user would pay for it ?

    But its nice to put the world to rights every now and then.

  • Mike Wallace

    This is a slight surprise to me, as I was housesitting for a friend while he was on honeymoon, and when I went to play his PS4 I saw he had Doom. Figuring it’d be a great way to kill a weekend, I started to download/install it and it was done in less than a few hours. This is on top of my friend living out in rural nowhere, relying on a shaking internet connection that is lucky to top off at more than 1-2 mbs.

    I can only imagine the gigantic internet service Jim Sterling uses, where his mighty expensive gaming PC downloads at a rate of a hundred or more mbs if the tubes are clear. If he’s got all that and the PS4 is still struggling to install Mafia 3… well.

    • Mafia 3 installed pretty quick for me on the Xbox One, the problem isn’t the games so much as it is PSN being absolute shit when it comes to downloading games(just Google “Psn terrible at downloading” and you’ll see it’s a pretty universal problem, it took my Vita several hours to download Sly 3) Xbox Live downloads games so much faster(probably also helps that I got a physical version over a digital one), I live in a rural area(albeit one that’s somewhat close to a Verizon antenna) and Mafia 3 and Doom both only took about an hour to install for me.

      • Mike Wallace

        Doom was fast for me, so I was under the impression that PS4 was decent at downloading/installing. But I don’t own a PS4 so this is all news to me.

        • Janio

          There seem to be different rates of download speeds when using PSN. Seen it many times on my PS3 downloading games and demos.

  • Doki

    Another aspect of this issue: Game installs take up so much of the limited console HDD space that you most usually HAVE to delete them to play the next game. Then, months later, when the *must play* DLC shows up, you have to install the full game all over again, plus download the day one patch, the patches after that, the actuall DLC, and the DLC’s day one patch. Happened with Bloodborne, and will happen again next week when I go back into Dark Souls 3 for the DLC.

    • Anton

      What’s worse is the insidious DLC that installs automatically. My Halo 5 install has nearly doubled in size in the last year.

      • Max Whiteley

        And the games got no better XD…….. Lolzzzz

      • galactix100

        That thing ended up at something like 88 gigs by the time I got sick of it. Good thing fireshite was there to be a final nail.

    • I actually don’t have a problem with that, because once i’m done with a game I have no reason to keep the data on the hard drive, so I just delete it, i’ve been doing that ever since I got a 360.

    • Max Whiteley

      On the bone you can plug in an external hard drive, so that point Jim made is kind of moot if you take that into consideration.
      I don’t know if you can do that on PS4 though, some one will have to inform me.

      • PS4 dosen’t support external hard drives, you can upgrade it’s drive to 2 TB, but you have to take apart the console to do it, sounds like way too much of a pain in the ass to me.

        • Chaltab

          Say what you will about the Wii U’s weak processor but external hard drive support sure is nice.

          • True, plus unlike other consoles it’s fully backwards compatible with all it’s predecessors games, which comes in really handy.

          • CaitSeith

            Now, if there were enough games to fill up that 1TB hard drive… /jk

        • Max Whiteley

          Cheers buddy.

          The bone just takes a USB HD, plug and play simple really.

          • Yeah that’s yet another area Sony royally screwed up, it’s no surprise the Xbox One has been outselling the PS4 for the past few months.

          • Max Whiteley

            I didn’t know that.

          • Yeah, this is the third month in a row where Microsoft outsold Sony(and fourth this year, they also outsold Sony in April). Unlike Sony, MS doesn’t have to compete with PCs since they actually make PCs themselves.

          • Max Whiteley

            Yeah, Windows 10 and Xbox are united. Problem is every one hates Windows 10 for good reason I hear. I don’t know I do t own a PC.

          • Yeah Windows 10 doesn’t sound very good, I still have Windows 7 and i’ve got no plans to get rid of it until support is completely gone.

          • Janio

            Its already unsupported most new cpu will not work with so far I read ? its in maintance mode.

          • I heard support will not stop until 2020

        • Fyou

          It’s actually a dedicated access panel for the HDD, not the whole console. It’s kind of a pain, but not bad if you do it from the get go.

  • Not being able to play right away doesn’t bother me much, can’t do that with games on Steam either, some of whom have taken far longer to download then anything on a console has for me.

  • Landon Brown
    • CaitSeith

      But my game is fully installed. Now you can’t even beat that, filthy console pesant! /s

      • Landon Brown

        lol pc gamers are so fragile.

        • CaitSeith

          Poe’s law is a bitch, isn’t it? LOL

          • Landon Brown

            …what? lol

  • I still prefer playing multiplatform games on consoles over PCs, as at least consoles don’t have shitty DRM like Denuvo, I flat out refuse to buy anything on PC that has Denuvo in it, because i’d rather deal with all the other bullshit then being treated like a fucking criminal.

  • Chaltab

    So I just looked up Battlefield 1’s system requirements today and saw that its minimum spec lists a marginally better processor than the one in my computer. Now maybe I could get by with it as is, or maybe I could overclock and have no problem, but that still presents a possibility of buying a $60 game and having it not work.

    That, at least, is something that consoles still have over PC: the standardized specifications. You know that if you buy a PS4 or XBOX1 then any game that says PS4 or XBOX1 will be compatible with it. Even with the upcoming ‘pro’ hardware configurations it seems MS and Sony are mandating that no games can use the extra power in ways that would preclude them running on the original hardware*.

    *Granted, I won’t be shocked if they break that promise.

    But otherwise, yeah, the advantages of modern consoles are less pronounced than they used to be… I mean there’s a reason I haven’t bothered with PS4 or XBOX1 yet.

    • Anton

      There is a flip side to this.

      Case in point: Dead Rising 3. You can purchase it on Xbox One or PC. Now, suppose you bought it for a weak pc, and it runs poorly. It sucks, but at least the game will work when you do upgrade your computer.

      Alternatively, you can buy DR3 on console. On console, it runs 15-20 fps a lot of the time, while scaling resolution down to 720p. And that will NEVER improve for you.

      • Chaltab

        This is true.

        On the other hand, if you can’t even manage 720p/30fps on a modern console then you probably weren’t trying that hard to begin with.

        • Anton

          A lot more games run poorly on console than you’d think. It’s worse than ever in the recent generation, now that Sony and MS are one-upping one another with image quality.

          • Justin Graham

            It’s really on the developers for not working to optimize performance on a given platform. Shoddy port jobs have been around forever, after all.

          • Anton

            Very true, which is why it’s nice to have a brute-force solution.

      • Runs fine for me on console.

        • Anton

          Congratulations. The metrics say otherwise.

    • Plus PCs have thousands of different configurations, so there’s all kinds of random quirks that can randomly screw with a game that you might not be able to fix(Jim had that issue with Deadly Premonition on PC) at least on consoles you don’t have to worry about that.

    • CaitSeith

      Well, now that Steam has a refund policy, you can see if the game manages to run ok, or get your money back. Sometimes the developers lie about minimum specs (I heard that happened with CoD: Ghosts).

      • Chaltab

        I tried out Ghosts during a free weekend on my laptop that was at or above the listed minimum; it ran, but only on the lowest possible graphics setting which looked worse than other games with lower requirements.

  • Patches have always downloaded pretty fast for me on my Xbox.

  • Doublep

    Well, technically, a menu with just unavailable options is considered playable content…at least it’s all the playable content that was there at the release of Street Fighter V 🙂

  • Allan Weallans

    I remember being (mildly) outraged at Max Payne 3’s install size. Of course, it’s small compared to modern games, but four years ago, it was ridiculous. I bought it, played it, and decided it wasn’t worth it – not that it wasn’t worth the price (I think I picked it up in a sale, but even without that, the price wasn’t the issue), but that it wasn’t worth the space it was taking up on my machine. And, y’know, this was on PC, where hard disk space is cheaper and downloads are faster.

    I think if people (and by ‘people’ I mean me, so I’ll admit that it may be just me) are less concerned about the money you’re asking for a game than they are about the hard disk space you’re asking, you’re probably doing something very wrong.

    • Max Payne 3 is one of my favorite games.

      • Allan Weallans

        I do think I might like it now that I can spare the space, but back then I was just thinking about the other games it was preventing me from installing.

        • I’ve never had that issue, as whenever i’m done with playing a game, I always delete the data since I don’t hold on to games after i’m done with them(unless there’s story-related DLC coming out in the future), I trade them to Gamestop for store credit.

  • Benjamin Corbett

    I remember having to install halo collection and it taking forever. It is actually why I got rid of the Xbox one I had. It literally took me over 6 hours.

    I have not had anything take anywhere near that long to download and play on the PlayStation. My buddy was having a similar issue and it turns out his ISP was actually experiencing a quality of service issue that needed to be resolved.

    • PSN downloads for me take an eternity compared to Xbox Live downloads.

      Did you get the digital or physical version of the Master Chief Collection? Cause I always get physical versions of console games(Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 being the only exception so far since the digital versions comes with all the DLC, and said DLC is no longer available in the Xbox Store, so the digital version is the only way to access that content)

    • Chaltab

      The more I hear about stuff like that the more it seems like the NX using game cards is a really smart decision.

      • Anton

        Wait…. cards?

        • 64GB card is not that costly, and nin can get them dirt cheap but I would be surprised if they go higher than that…

        • Chaltab

          Like, flash-based memory cards similar to what the DS line uses. The tech has reached a point where BluRays don’t really have a storage advantage, but do have a huge disadvantage on read speed.

          • Anton

            Interesting. I wonder what the lifetime on these is. My issue with Nintendo cartridges is that sooner or later, they always break.

          • Chaltab

            Well flash memory degrades based on number of write cycles than rather than age, and I’m assuming you won’t likely be rewriting the core game data much.

          • Anton

            Yeah, but what about the wear on the contacts?

          • InfamousDS

            It most likely won’t corrode if they are coated properly, and not cheaply made in general. And since you can contract out that work to a reputable company for pennies on the dollar, that really helps.

            I can buy a name-brand SD card with the same storage capacity as most PS4 games for under $50. That’s MSRP after brand mark-up, taxes, and store mark-up. It is most likely sub $5 to actually produce the blank before we include chain of custody and end-user branding.

            I can see this as not only viable in the near future, I’ve been asking for years why its taking so long to get there in the first place.

          • Salador

            What if the NX has multiple slots, so you don’t have to switch out all the time?

            Besides, unless you live in an acid factory you should be able to use a game for decades before the cartridge degrades (battery notwithstanding).

          • Anton

            Well, I must have had some terrible luck then, because nearly half the games I bought for GBA and DS no longer work.

          • Salador

            Well, almost all of mine still do. And me and my bro played the shit out of the minish cap.

          • Anton

            I just want to play Golden Sun again 🙁

          • Salador

            Well, emulators have you covered.

            It’s a shame that they never really expanded Golden Sun into the franchise it could have been. I spent so many hours on mine (which still works).

          • Chris

            I don’t want to sound mean but… how? Do you live near the ocean or something? I still have my super nintendo and all the games work and I played them mercilessly. Similarly (though I’ve not individually tested each one) all my gba and DS cartridges all still work.
            Sorry again, I really don’t want to be an asshole but I’m amazed since I’ve never really heard of cartridge games wearing out before

          • Anton

            It’s fine, I’ve always been rather amazed myself. I was always a careful owner, and the cartridges were kept in cases when not in use.

            The only thing I can think of, is that I bought most of those games used.

          • Chris

            My working theory is the former owners likes playing video game foot ball or just use sand paper for everything

          • Kev’ Bryant

            Stop licking your eyes?

          • BR read speeds :4X 18mb, 6x is 27mb, 8x is 32mb.

            SD card: read speed is around 30

            PS4 and Xbone have 6x BR drives in them, which seem to run slower than 216mbit from some reports.

            A SD card is more potable and easier to lock than a Blu ray disc, lets not forget Nintendo is insane with over protection…

        • cartridges specifically, personally i’m very skeptical about the NX since it’s only five months away and we still know very little about it, so i’m sure those cartridges will have sort of catch to them. I remember when Nintendo had the oh so bright idea to make cat ridges for the N64, which resulted in it’s games costing 70-80 dollars.

    • galactix100

      At least it let you play each game once it finished downloading so you were kind of able to play while it installed.

  • Dat deaf AI….wow…just wow…..

  • Benj

    We live in a world were being able to “Pre-load” is presented as a bonus treat by publishers rather than a necessity for playing the game during the first few hours of the launch date.

    • Justin Graham

      I never really got the zeal for playing games as soon as they’re available for download. Like, if a game’s download is unlocked at midnight, I’d rather just wait until the following evening when I’m home from work and not about to pass out.

      • Benj

        I agree with you but I still think it’s important that people who do care about this stuff have that option.

        This multi-tiered download/install stuff is even worse for people like us who might set the download in the morning and, very reasonably, expect it to be ready when we get in from work 10 hours or so later.

  • Sperium3000

    Ok, so explain something to me. You bought the digital version on Mafia III on PSN, and it immediately was ready to play, at which point you entered the game and it took you to that installation screen, right? So… You were expecting to be able to play the digital version immediately without downloading the game? It’s not like it spent the entire time downloading it AND THEN it took you to that installation screen, it simply showed the downloading proccess in different manner. So… I’m confused to what the problem is.

    • Yeah i’m confused too, I got the physical version of Mafia 3 on the Xbox One and it certainly didn’t take anywhere near that long to install. it was a bit odd actually, it got to 100% after an hour, then I loaded the game up and the install percentage was at 55% and stayed that way for several minutes, I thought something went wrong due to my internet getting weird(which happens sometimes) so I turned the game off and on again, and the next I loaded it up, it was fully installed and went right to the title screen.

    • Benj

      It stops you downloading something over night or while you’re at work (because we all totally have jobs right?) because it randomly cuts the download whilst pretending that it’s fast.

      It’s like a waitress telling you that you’re meal will be ready in 10 minutes every 10 minutes for half an hour rather than just being honest.

    • You can execute/start the game to be taken to a not ready menu or other junk and no real info on when it will be ready.


      Steam where you open steam select the game it starts downloading and tells you how far along it is.

    • You are incorrect.

      Mafia III “downloaded” from the PlayStation Store, taking about as long as you’d expect it to on Steam. THEN it showed up on the dashboard as ready to play, at which point I was brought to the day-long “install” screen.

      • Jiryn

        Was the original download a small like 5-10gigs as well?

        Yea, I am tired of this.. which is why when I get the install/download screen I usually leave it to check if it is downloading on the main dashboard/notifications screen, then go into rest mode.

        Usually speeds things up, though not fond of it since I use my PS4 to watch movies, Netflix, and Youtube.

        • I used my computer for movies, Netflix and Youtube while i’m waiting for console downloads, works well for me since both are in the same room and close to one another.

          • Jiryn

            Yea, I play wow on my laptop and watch movies on my PS4.
            Though I will turn on one of my other consoles if I need to.

      • Sperium3000

        Oh, ok. Nevermind, then. That sucks.

    • Salador

      Well, I think it’s fair to expect a game to be ready to play… when it says it’s fucking ready to play.

      Also, I assume that if you had to go in game to another loading screen, then you couldn’t exit while installing and use the machine for something else. Which is super bullshit, for a game to hold your console hostage like that.

      • I was able to exit Mafia 3 while it was installing on Xbox, and Jim was able to exit it on PS4 as he mentioned playing the new Dragon Quest game while waiting.

        • Salador

          Fair enough. I guess, in that way, it’s not THAT bad, even if it does take the piss if you have to wait a whole day to play a game.

          • It didn’t take me a whole day to install Mafia 3 though, only took me about an hour. I bought the game on disc so maybe that helped.

          • Salador

            But that’s Jim’s point. Even when you buy the game on disc, you still have to wait an hour to actually play the game. 2 gens ago, you could just put in the disc and go.

          • Yes, but back then you couldn’t patch out game-breaking bugs like you can now, so i’ll happily deal with waiting for patches if it means I won’t have to worry about getting screwed over due to a glitch.

            It’s not like PC is much better for download speed, Arma 3 took me 3 hours to download on Steam, which is longer then any console game ever took me.

          • Salador

            I’m not sure about your internet, because I DL games 3 times the size of ARMA 3 in under an hour, and I don’t even have super duper laser unicorn hair fibre wire internet. Not sure you can blame Steam for that one.

            You can patch game breaking bugs, sure, but in the past games were less likely to release with those bugs in there. Because they knew that they couldn’t fix mistakes, they made sure to ship with as few as possible. Nowadays, devs abuse the ability to patch by shipping their game in buggy, unpolished states. And, of course, this sucks for us, because we either have to put up with release games being broken or have to DL a patch on day one. So we actually have to worry about getting screwed over by glitches even more today. A great example for exactly what Jim was saying: consoles have become less convenient, which was their main selling point over the fiddly-ness of PCs.

            Also, the PC literally is better for DL speeds, especially than the PS4. You can look it up.

          • It’s very strange, my internet has no problem downloading games on my Xbox, but with Steam it’s very hit and miss.

            You probably have a much more expensive gaming PC then I do, so that’s probably why your downloads are faster.

            Oh there were plenty of games released back in the sixth generation which had lots of bugs that the publishers knew about(I.E. Driv3r, True Crime: New York City) People like to look back on the PS2-era with rose-tinted glasses and ignore all the bad things about that era.

            Maybe you’re PC is better for download speeds because it’s probably a lot newer then mine.

            I don’t have to worry about getting screwed over by glitches in games anymore at all.

            Consoles still feel plenty convenient to me.

          • Salador

            I was playing on 3 year old laptop. I doubt that it’s my computer that’s better.

            Maybe you should check your steam settings. There is an option to throttle downloads which you might have accidentally checked.

            I won’t lie and say that consoles have less glitches than PCs. That’s not true. A lot more goes wrong with PCs than with consoles. I remember my fallout 4 broke for a while cos I changed the resolution and the game wouldn’t start. Silly things like that can just ruin everything. But, on the whole, devs were more stringent about releasing a well made product in that era. That Miyamoto quote was a great example of the kind of thinking which, frankly, is gone from a lot of publishers today.

          • Yeah maybe, i’ll look into that.

            It’s not devs that are the problem, it’s publishers, and no they were not really more careful back then. Somehow who was a tester for the infamously buggy True Crime: New York City mentioned how Activision knew the game had around 6,000 bugs, but they still shipped it out anyways(the Xbox version was so bad you could literally only beat it using cheats)

  • Aisha clanclan

    How did this turn into a next gen console discussion?

  • Terriosaurus Hex

    Sony restrict their download speeds? Why does nobody love me? 🙁

    • Kev’ Bryant

      The poster above you does! They told me!

  • ManuOtaku

    I do wonder if the velocity is the same for the downloading of the game and the time requiered for the game to be played as the discount in your wallet velocity.

    On a more serious note, this whole generation has been a letdown for me, WiiU, PS4 and ONE have been a letdown compare to the past generation consoles. from a games perspective to a performance perspective, from the first day-multiple patch practices to the not 1080p-60fps performance and now this. I fear for the days console gaming becomes fully a service and fully digital.

    • Not for me, I share Miracle of Sound’s opinion that this generation has given us lots of truly great games.

      • ManuOtaku

        I think there has been great games, but sadly only two games brought something new to the table, like shadow of mordor and the nemesis system and arkham with no loading times, for the rest of the games nothing new or next gen besides shinier graphics. Then is the performance issues, that compare to past gen it pales and it is insipid in comparision.

        • I thought Shadow of Mordor was pretty bland

          Personally I couldn’t give less of a fuck about whether a game brings something “new” or not, I only really care if a game is enjoyable or not.

          Like Jim himself has said before, some people focus way too much on whether a game is “original” or not and unfairly penalize games for not being all that original.

          • ManuOtaku

            I understand that, i meant the way the nemesis system made the orcs react to my pressence and actions, that was pretty great and i think it might do wonder to other series, specifically watch dogs.

            I think i didn´t explain well, it is not a thing of being original or not, shadow of mordor for instance is like any other open world game that came before, but that i want to see things that i never seen before, especially gameplay wise like the nemesis system, not just graphics improvements, that while nice, it is having the same experiences as before. We can have the same type of games but with innovation as well, i think games are stagnant in that regard.

            Past generation we had games like bulletstorm, dead space,and many others,that did bring something new to the table, and i think this generation is less in that regard than the previous one

          • I thought Talon was the most boring video game protagonist of all time, people like to rag on Aidan Pierce, but he’s three-dimensional next to Talon.

  • ATBro

    If you want a PS4 download to happen fast, start the download and then put it into “rest mode.” It’s not Steam speeds but I’ve downloaded 50+ gig games in 3 to 4 hours that way.

    In a surface level I agree with the point Jim is making here, but because I don’t have a “consumer advocate” character to maintain, I will put a less conspiracy theorist spin on what’s going on here.

    While the problems that popped up with this idea are ultimately Sony and MS’s fault, I have a difficult time wagging my fingers at them berating them at their fuck up. The idea was good, but with any new set of rules, people are going to immediately find ways to subvert them to get around figuring out how to work within them, and unfortunately because they aren’t breaking the letter of the law, Sony and MS can’t really stop them, even if they aren’t really within the spirit of the rule. Sony and MS certainly could make changes to the rules, but that would most likely require fairly substantial reworking of how the consoles handle pre-installation of games and that may not be feasible in the long run.

    There is also a bunch of stuff in the video that seems to be a little contradictory to other things that Jim has talked about before. Like when he mentions that developers don’t use compression anymore, and they are “wrecklessly dumping gigs onto out hard drives.” Aside from being a fucking absurd thing to say (as ridiculous as saying, “devs are lazy because there I have an issue with a game I bought”), it isn’t even really correct in a few ways. One, the developers/publishers do pay for bandwidth and if they could get the same thing out without that cost, they sure as shit would do it. Secondly, everything, EVERYTHING, is compressed in someway or other. Audio, video, texture and effect maps, are all made to be as small as possible while losing as little fidelity as possible. Just a games audio uncompressed would result in larger than 50 gig downloads, never mind any pre-rendered cinematics. Even if what he is saying wasn’t factually inaccurate, it also doesn’t jibe well with his stance on the “PC Master Race.” Does he want these machines to do everything they can do, or does he want nice neat little download packages that don’t take up too much hard drive space? You can’t have it both ways.

    My main point of contention that comes from the more recent entries in this series, (I have been watching Jim since the beginning and have seen every one) is the implication that there is some sort of malicious intent behind everything sngle thing that he doesn’t like about the games industry. If he doesn’t like microtransactions, then it’s clear that greedy publishers are trying to bilk money out of people for nothing. If he feels like file sizes are too large for his personal taste, it’s because those dastardly devs just want to wrecklessly dump files onto his hard drive. This is starting to look like Jim has a persecution complex, and only sees game companies out to get him. Which is a crazy idea… you know… other than the one who actually is out to get him.

    • Jiryn

      Yep, I’ve noticed Rest Mode seems to go faster.
      Though I am annoyed by games that say the entire game download is 5-10 gigs, which when completed starts a 2nd download….

    • RifleAvenger Sashiro

      Honestly, the microtransaction one doesn’t seem too conspiratorial to me. They’re there to make the company money, and many times progression in games that focus on microtransactions is painful if you don’t use them. That’s esp. jarring in games already being sold at full price, which is Jim’s actual issue, not the existence of microtransactions at all.

      • VoidOfOne

        Yep. If a game has microtransactions, there are two things that are always true:

        1) Having microtransactions directly influenced at least some major aspect of the game, in varying ways.
        2) Microtransactions are meant to be used; let no one tell you different. They aren’t there as an option, but more of a “preferred” option. How preferred depends on the game itself.

        • step1999

          The only exception to 1. IMO is Mankind Divided, where according to Jim’s ep on the subject Square Enix told them to add microtransactions and rebalance the game around them so late in development the devs didn’t have time to do the rebalancing.

    • Salador

      ‘Does he want these machines to do everything they can do, or does he want nice neat little download packages that don’t take up too much hard drive space? You can’t have it both ways.’

      The people trying to have it both ways are Sony and MS. It’s clear that Jim wants consoles to be what they were 2 generations ago. But, if they have to try to take the PC’s crown, then they can at least stop bullshitting us about being able to ‘play now’. Jim says that it’s fine that consoles are less powerful and less customisable, and essentially closed systems. Because they made up for it by being quick and easy and well made packages. Can you really say that is what this gen of consoles are?

      Sony ans MS are the ones trying to push their platforms as digital, yet providing a service which is unsatisfactory. They are the ones trying to compete with Steam, yet they find themselves lacking in almost every way, while sacrificing the few advantages that they do have.

      And I don’t think it’s wrong to suggest that publishers were more stringent about compression in the past.

      • I can say that, for me no console game has taken as long as to download as long some games have for me on Steam(Arma 3 took like 4 hours or more to install, no console game has ever taken longer then an hour to install)

    • BAH!

      Wasn’t compression an issue with Titanfall? I recall there was a thing because the audio files were absolutely massive.

      Also, the point is that Jim *doesn’t* want consoles to do everything PC’s can do. He (and I, and others) want them to do the thing that consoles used to do best: provide a convenient, easy, hassle-free way to play games. Granted, things were bound to change eventually; but it feels like publishers (or hardware manufacturers) aren’t seeking to maintain that distinction. And that’s where the problem lies.

      • Kev’ Bryant

        Absolutely! I took inferior graphics as a trade for no install or download for over twenty years!

  • Фролов Денис

    Hey, Microsoft can always fuck up Windows to the point of unplayability to make up for Xbox shittiness.

    • Ya but I don’t HAVE to pay for windows. ^_~

      • Фролов Денис

        Yet :S

    • Kintari

      Universal Windows Platform. Don’t worry, Microsoft thought ahead and is greasing their boner for when everyone dumps XBox.

  • Dave Dogge

    Everyone just chill .. relax.. forget these 1st world problems and sit back and relax tonight at midnight or is it tomorrow night when we get our early play of Battlefield 1 for we numpties that pre-ordered the game……. wait … what’s this …? it’s 1am and I cannot play the game due to an install … Grrrrr ….. Grrrrrrrrr …. I HATE EA … may they come crashing DOWN due to this inconvenience ….. may they fall … Grrrrrr I am so ANGRY … I just want to play my GAME .. I am so full of HATE and RAGE !!!!! Grrrrr rrrrrrr take that 1st world problems !

    • Battlefield 1 looks like shit to me, DICE should’ve done Bad Company 3 instead.

      • Aisha clanclan

        It is just a re-skin of battlefield 4 but as long as people enjoy it does it does not matter .

        • That’s one of TotalBiscuit’s big criticisms of it.

          • Aisha clanclan

            He’s just disappointed he hyped himself up for a game that was never going to be what he wanted.
            But it made me smile even big critics can fall to hype culture.

          • No TB never fell to hype culture, he just expected the game to do more with it’s WW1 setting then it actually did.

          • Aisha clanclan

            Theirs no shame in it we all get hyped for games it’s part of having a passion for a hobby .
            For example I’m really hyped for the English version of persona 5 .

          • Charlie Koszulinski

            I got hype for Red Dead 2 and it was merely teased only today. I’m too easy.

          • I wonder if that will finally mean a PC release for Redemption.

          • VoidOfOne

            It does beg the question: do people actually want things the way they say they do? Would this game better for it if it did fit the WW1 setting more? Or is the look alone enough?

            I think of Battlefront, and my question may have been answered just by that.

          • Justin Graham

            A more accurate WWI game might be interesting, but it certainly wouldn’t be Battlefield. Spending months on end in trenches when your worst enemies are the weather, trench foot, and mustard gas? Yikes.

          • VoidOfOne

            Not to mention not being able to rely on your guns 100%. Yikes indeed.

          • You wouldn’t have to go that far, but at least don’t make it feel like the WW1 theme is only painted on.

          • VoidOfOne

            Fair enough.

          • You can make the feel like it’s set in WW1 without it being like Verdun, BF1 has so many automatic weapons that it doesn’t feel like it’s in WW1 at all.

          • Janio

            He may not fall for hype culture, but he sure does have strange way looking at tech and pricing ? Why is he expecting a new engine in each game that does more or better graphics or framerates then most enginemakers can getout of the hardware. Also his review machine is over the top expensive for most gaming population. His style on this is getting old.

          • No it’s not getting old.

        • Andrew Barloq

          What the actual fuck? Is Dark Souls 3 just a reskin of Dark Souls 2?

          • Aisha clanclan

            Ya basically dark souls is a reskin of demons souls and so one but it does not make it any less fun.

          • Kev’ Bryant

            Ms Pac-man is just Pac-man with a bow?!

  • Jiryn

    One minor thing that needs to be pointed out, with the constant downloading of large install files, it really hurts people with data caps.

    Much of America, and Canada have very strict caps ranging from 250GB to 1TB per month, and overage either means fees, not being able to access the net, or even throttling your connection (though I know this was made illegal recently?)

    I know I currently do not have a cap, but companies like AT&T do, and Comcast is rolling out a nationwide 1TB cap on Nov 1st.

    • That’s not a console only issue though, it happens with PCs too. I’m just lucky i’m on a Verizon unlimited data usage plan.

      • Jiryn

        Very, I was pointing out in general.

  • Unnoticing Senpai

    The worst part of all this isn’t even the download requirements (which hey probably have a reason for) but rather, as Jim said, avoiding compression of files.
    I get some audiophiles might notice a difference if they have some high end speakers on their end, but why is it not an OPTION to download uncompressed? Not everybody has that luxury…
    We certainly are given plenty of options in which we can part with our money, but not with the stuff that really matters.

  • Unnoticing Senpai

    The worst part of all this isn’t even the download requirements (which hey probably have a reason for) but rather, as Jim said, avoiding compression of files.
    I get some audiophiles might notice a difference if they have some high end speakers on their end, but why is it not an OPTION to download uncompressed? Not everybody has that luxury…
    We certainly are given plenty of options in which we can part with our money, but not with the stuff that really matters.
    BTW have you heard of CS:GO selling sprays?

    • Anton

      I feel like by this point, you’re either unaffected because you love CSGO despite the gun skin gambling and MT abuse, or you’re unaffected because you don’t play CSGO.

      • Unnoticing Senpai

        True, but I figured it was something worth being called out on. Not to mention it sets yet another precedent for the rest of the industry to begin removing features in sequels only to have them sold for real money.

        • Anton

          Yeah, fair point.

  • Kev’ Bryant

    This is EXACTLY why my wife and I decided to switch to PC rather than update our consoles. The plug-and-play aspect is dead; thus the reason to stick with them.

    Shame my Defiance character couldn’t be ported over, though….

    • I love me some Defiance, loved playing it on 360.

      • Kev’ Bryant

        It just keeps getting better and better. :oD

  • Dr. Mel

    As someone who prefers the PC platform, I can say that consoles have ceded a lot of ground on convenience, but they still have a plug-and-play aspect to them that PCs don’t.

    They’re essentially game-only PCs now, and while they’re REALLY slow at doing most things and riddled with ads in its proprietary OS, you don’t have to do anything other than put a disc in and wait for a game to happen at you. Yeah, installations and the “play now” thing is a problem on consoles but even if it’s just finding current GPU drivers or checking system spec requirements, people are intimidated by modern PC usage. They can do it, they just don’t think they can so they don’t bother to learn and it remains “intimidating”.

    Until consoles require a customer to match system specs and potentially buy a game they can’t run or run a game on sub-optimal firmware (two things consoles take care of for you), then I’d still say consoles are ahead in convenience. They’re also ahead (albeit less than people think) in cost, but both the system req AND cost factors might go away if these mid-step consoles really catch on.

    • Bashtarle

      I dunno about the only thing that consoles really had over PC at least in my book was the easy of plugging them into your TV. HDMI pretty much torpedoed that advantage because at this point you are pretty much hard pressed to find a new PC/graphics card that doesn’t have an HDMI port.

      Probably the only nice thing I’ll ever say about HDMI 😛

      Sadly I really don’t doubt that the future where you have to check to see if your console can handle (insert game X) isn’t all that far off. Especially if they really go crazy with pumping out the variant/slightly upgraded consoles every 2 years or so. Since at that point for a game developer it really wouldn’t make any sense to make your game exclusively for a specific console variant. They are going to end up making them compatible with blocks of consoles and when you get to a certain point the older blocks aren’t going to be able to handle it anymore.

    • Well yeah, with my Asperger’s Syndrome there’s no way in hell I can build a PC, I don’t want to risk breaking something.

      My current PC is mainly used for exclusives and for playing ports of sixth generation games.

      Also some people just can’t learn things, I paid someone else to build a PC for me rather then waste time trying to do it myself.

      • Charlie Koszulinski

        Hey, that’s not a bad idea. I never thought to pay someone else to do it. I wonder if I could pay someone to get Fallout 3 to actually run on my PC? Also, I wonder if there’s a class you could take on PC building? That’d be as convenient as, oh say, a console, perhaps?

        • I was able to do that because there’s a guy that lives only a few miles from me who runs a PC repair and upgrade shop out of his house, he’s known my family for a long time so he offered to build me a PC and I accepted his offer, he did a pretty good job, I had that PC for almost a decade.

          • Charlie Koszulinski

            That’s pretty cool. Now, I’m not gonna build my own PC any time soon,but just out of curiosity, how much did the whole procedure cost you?

          • I honestly don’t remember the exact amount, my parents actually paid for it since I needed my own computer for school anyways, but it couldn’t have been more then a couple hundred dollars.

      • Bashtarle

        Building a PC can be stressful especially if you are dealing with really expensive parts for the first time. Once you get a couple builds under your belt it will start to feel like second nature.

        • Not for me it won’t, not everybody can learn to do something like that. After my last custom built PC started showing it’s age I opted to just buy a pre-built one on Ebay for 170 dollars, saved me a lot of hassle.

          • Artemiy

            Just curious: have you asked any hardware shops if they can build a PC for you? That’s how I got my first PC, the shop assembled it for free since I bought all the hardware from them.

      • Dr. Mel

        You don’t have to build one, you can get a mid-range PC for close to what a console costs. Building one is cheaper if you want a cutting edge system, but even a 7 year old setup (or a cheap current setup) can run new releases today.

        • That’s precisely what I did, I bought a pre-built Lenovo PC on Ebay for around 170 dollars. Works pretty well for me so far.

          It does run new releases like Bombshell and Hatred, though not without having to severely tone down graphics settings.

      • Trav

        I never understand why the primary reason against PCs is the intimidation of building them. It implies that there is no middle ground between some lame supermarket bought thing and a mega hardcore built-using-reactor-core-components PC.

        There are loads of custom PC shops that only cost a bit more than buying and building yourself, ensuring a good build quality and guarantee it will work reliably. I’m an avid PC gamer but I don’t have much time for the hardware side of it. I got mine from PC Specialist here in the UK. You can pick the hardware yourself but they can advise you on what you’ll need for your particular use case. There are many companies like this for the middle ground between a PC fit only for Excel and a top end gaming rig if you’re put off by the hardware.

        • Well i’m guessing you don’t have Asperger’s Syndrome like I do, a lot of things are intimidating to me. Hell TotalBiscuit, the biggest PC critic of all time has admitted that he’s bad at building his own PC(due to having Dyspraxia) and had to get his wife to do it for him(after he accidentally bent a motherboard)

          I don’t live in the U.K. myself, we PC specialist stores aren’t really around where I live(at least not anymore).

  • Jivesh Hanoomaun

    Huh…that fucking sucks. First game I’ve ever do this, every other game gave me full access to the content when the download completed. Then again this game isn’t exactly the picture of quality.

  • Jivesh Hanoomaun

    Huh…that fucking sucks. First game I’ve ever seen do this, every other game gave me full access to the content when the download completed. Then again this game isn’t exactly the picture of quality.

    • I think it’s a very quality game, I think it’s better then Mafia 2.

  • zeeby

    I got Dragon Age Origins on release… still downloading it. 74% done so far.

    • Kintari

      Take a break for a few days, it’ll be 80 before you know it!

    • Wellsy487

      I have the same problem. But I got it a week after release. It’s on 67%

  • TheLawOfficesofDindu&Nuffin

    I’m almost finished with Mafia 3. In retrospect, downloading it was a far more enjoyable experience than playing it.

  • Khaelgor

    You forgot what made consoles so attractive. Controllers 😛

    • Wolfie

      But modern controllers can plug into your PC now, as well.

      • Christoph Brinkmann

        Been able to use my XBox 360 in my previous PC, which was a hand me down back in 2010 running XP. Current one works like a charm as well. Made all the difference playing Witcher 3.

      • Janio

        Yes, but plugging it in does not change how you need micro manage your inventory by dragging items, et cetera in most PC games.

    • Kyle Pierce

      I just bought a Gamesir G4s controller & it kicks ass.

    • ManuOtaku

      Easy of use-plug and play as well.

  • Christoph Brinkmann

    Just wondering what the console die hards will do to defend their precious systems THIS time. I don’t have a problem with the consoles, used to have a 360 myself, but there’s being a fan and then there’s being a fanboy. Finding excuses for problems that never should’ve been there in the first place is the latter.

    • Rui Sa

      it goes both ways really, this entire console vs PC thing is silly in the first place. Consoles shouldn’t try to be like computers but the community shouldn’t be pushing for consoles to be more like computers in the first place

      • Kintari

        > the community shouldn’t be pushing for consoles to be more like computers in the first place

        The community isn’t asking for it. Sony is pushing it as a selling point as part of their marketing strategy.

        • Rui Sa

          i constantly see comments and really ridiculous debates on how consoles aren’t as powerful as computers and how they should step up their game in order to compete with the PC market which is something they shouldn’t nor need to do. I am not saying that the manufacturers aren’t to be blamed for it but the community is also at fault. look at the PS4 Pro and the Scorpio fiasco, that came about due to “demand” for 4K gaming on consoles because PC can do it as well, out of everyone I know only 1 person has a 4K TV.

          • Arella Jardin

            There’s little demand for 4K on the consumer side. 4K gaming is something the companies are pushing as important, despite relatively small market penetration of 4K tvs. In fact, a few polls have suggested many gamers want better framerates, not resolution. Seriously, I don’t know why Sony made it their primary talking point, when they even admit to using scaling techniques to pull it off for most of the games shown.

            No, the Pro and Scorpio exist because both companies underpowered their machines this gen, and developers have been up their asses about needing to compromise their games to get them to run. Plus, they weren’t really ready for the VR requirements. Yes, PSVR works on the current PS4, but just barely. The current little games available are already straining the system, so forget actual growth without Pro.

          • Wellsy487

            Consoles have constantly been pushing for better graphics. That’s not new. It’s clear that in the last 10 years PC gaming has gotten far better, but consoles can’t compete with something that can get upgrades every 6 months.

          • Actually that came about due to AMD discontinuing the chip used for the current models of the consoles.

      • Squinty

        Consoles ARE computers though. They just happen to have a closed, tightly controlled ecosystem and you hook em up to your TV.

    • Landon Brown

      “I don’t have a problem with the consoles”

      Yeah you do. All pc gamers shit on consoles constantly and go into lenght of how superior the pc is for games, while ignoring its own crippling flaws

      • Kev’ Bryant

        As a PC Gamer, I find you comment offensive and triggering.

        • Landon Brown

          pc gamers be fragile.

          • Kev’ Bryant

            And sarcastic. ;op

          • Landon Brown

            Oh i knew you were being sarcastic 😛

      • Ana Decker

        2/10, try harder.

        • Landon Brown

          Why should i try when you don’t?

          • Ana Decker

            NO U

      • Squinty

        Pray tell, what “crippling flaws” would those be?

        • Landon Brown

          shit ports, less cost effective ( you gotta spend money to build a good gaming pc instead of…you know…buying a standard pc. Lacks memorable exclusives that are not mmos, etc.

          • Squinty

            2 of those you mentioned are just not true. The “you need more money” idea is a myth and a “good PC” is an awfully subjective matter. You could get console parity by spending the same amount of money on console-launch and now you can get better-than-console quality. I have no idea why this myth persists, the internet abounds of “kill your console” builds.
            I agree that some ports are shitty but I wouldn’t call that crippling. They usually get fixed eventually and consoles have their share of poorly performing games, so it’s not that unique of a situation.

      • Christoph Brinkmann

        No we don’t. You’d know that if you paid more attention to reality and less time overcompensating for certain inadequacies.

        • Landon Brown

          Yeah, these comments and other around the internet speak for themselves about you pc gamers. Quick denying your elitist attitudes already. lol oh pc gamers.

      • Haha, no

        “All pc gamers”…. REALLY, now?

        • Landon Brown


  • Rui Sa

    I am a console gamer and a Sony fanboy but even I find some of the things inexcusable, the installation and updates time and file sizes go completely against what consoles stand for however Jim seems to overlook that fact that the community is also partially to blame since they are the ones the keep on comparing consoles to PCs and how they should be more like PCs and how a game on PC has better visuals and unlocked frame rate and mods and all of that shit that makes a PC a PC. Consoles are consoles and PCs are PCs, both have their strengths and weaknesses so the player should just choose the one that fits their needs the most and let the each system do whats its meant to do.

    • Kintari

      The community is to blame for thinking critically about how they’ve been shat and lied upon by console manufacturers?

      The only ones to blame here are Sony, Microsoft, and self-proclaimed fanboys telling the rest of us to stop thinking about how console owners have been screwed.

    • prh99

      Communities say a lot of things (if Jim listened to his community everyone’s favorite games would get 10/10 scores and scores for unrelated games would figure in somehow cause consistency…), but that doesn’t absolve console manufacturers of doing a shitty job.

      • Rui Sa

        I am not saying it does but sadly these days console manufacturers and game publishers get people to compile a chart of sorts of what users are saying they want on their websites and make decisions around those numbers.

  • Nathan Stapleton

    Hmm… That might be the reason I seem to be more and more drawn to playing handhelds. I’ve only had to delete things very rarely from my Vita or 3DS and usually it’s to get something new I had to make room by deleting a game I had completed and just left on there since I had plenty of room. It seems like every time I get a new PS4 game I have to delete 1 or more old games just to have space to play the new one, even if it’s a disc-based version I’m using.

  • Lies That Bind

    A point Jim brought up in the video about how they just aren’t compressing data anymore really irks me. I remember saying the new infinite warfare bundle was going to be 130 gigs in a related thread here and it really is just unacceptable but it’s becoming more commonplace and I only see it getting worse. Some people have gotten into the thinking that the bigger the download means more gameplay too.

    • Wellsy487

      Agreed. I have a ps4 for ease of playing, but if I have to keep waiting for games to install I may as well try getting a good gaming PC connected to my tv.

    • Kyle Pierce

      Yea, they just don’t give a shit anymore cause they don’t have to cram all the data on one or two disks. To me, it’s anti-consumer as hell. Forcing people to download that much data when some areas have forced data download limits each month & the fact that cox/comcast is enforcing a new data cap limit rule, basically either forcing you to pay more money each month or pay more money in overage fees. It’s fucking bollox. Maybe Comcast is paying the “AAA” games market to increase game size to increase their profits? In this day and age I honestly wouldn’t doubt it.

      • Lies That Bind

        I wouldn’t say they’re working in tandem but it’s definitely something Comcast would capitalize on. I think the data has to do with publishers wanting to push out the games as quickly as possible or maybe it truly is just laziness. It’s inconsiderate to your audience either way. I remember when people said they didn’t know how they were going to fill up 500 gigs worth of harddrive space. I also think a lot of people are dismissing the data issue because you can just buy a bigger harddrive but you shouldn’t have to buy more stuff just so you can have more than a few games on your console. I don’t think deleting the game is a suitable either because if you downloaded the game that just eats up more of your data on top of talking up your free time.

    • Hiroshi_Mishima

      Personally, I I don’t think ANY game has any right to be that big. There is just no justification for a game to be more than 60 gigs, max. Games like ARK and DOOM with their huge 10+ gig updates that don’t fix problems and often ignore player concerns or desires. I love the hell out of the new DOOM solo campaign, but all we get is multiplayer and map-making crap that many of us didn’t want or ask for which bloats the overall size of the game by at least twice what it would be.

  • Tamara Coleman
    • CaitSeith

      Nice attempt on trying to impress us with your Jimquisition fan art. But this impress no one. Next luck next time.

      • Tamara Coleman

        Actually 3 people were impressed by it. Also ” next luck next time”? lol fail.

  • dyscode

    How I miss the PS2 days (and earlier), since then consoles just made themselves obsolete. Pop in a Disc / Cartridge and play? Forget it!

    • I don’t miss the days where you couldn’t fix game breaking bugs.

      • BAH!

        People tend to forget that part. Though in fairness, major releases were less likely to to be as bad as they’ve been recently. Serious bugs were generally harder to find.

        • I don’t know about that, I remember the Xbox version of True Crime: NYC could only be beaten by using a cheat code because the developers accidentally used the wrong build when making that version of the game, causing it to be much more unstable then the other versions. Thank fuck I played that game on PC, otherwise I probably would’ve hated it, same with Driv3r, that game was a glitchy mess on PS2.

          • BAH!

            As compared to Ubisoft and EA games regularly being nearly unplayable at launch in the last 5 years? I don’t recall ever coming across a single “big” game in the last three generations like that. Though my experience may be skewed since I was a Nintendo Kid, and my games were largely 1st-party stuff.

            But even so, considering almost every game now has a massive day-one patch? I think that says something.

          • Mr. Tastee

            In the case of Ubisoft, I would chalk it up to greed. The devs just don’t have enough time in my opinion. The reason for that being Ubiconic just has to have an AC game every year. Although they finally seem to be easing up on it.

            Of course the games always selling great despite technical problems probably doesn’t help.

            For all their troubles, Nintendo does put many others to shame in terms of polish on their first party stuff. I won’t say 100% glitch free, but they at least have the self respect to not release a buggy broken unplayable mess.

          • BAH!

            Fair enough on Ubisoft, but remember that ZombiU was also a dumpster fire at launch. Though the blame for that could also be placed with Nintendo and how they handled dev kit distribution. Still, I don’t think there would have been much problem with it being delayed a short while. In retrospect, it certainly wouldn’t have hurt.

          • Mr. Tastee

            No doubt Nintendo made a lot of mistakes with the Wii U. Devs may have felt pressured to use the gamepad in some way, kinda like motion controls and the Wii. Zombi U certainly didn’t turn out as expected. I remember when it was Killer Freaks From Outer Space, before becoming another zombie game. That kinda killed my interest.

            When third parties like Ubisoft quickly abandon ship as they did with Rayman Legends, that probably doesn’t help consumer confidence either.

          • There aren’t really any Ubisoft or EA games i’ve bought in the past five years that were unplayable for me at launch.

            Better a day one patch then having the game be glitchy with no fix at all.

            I honestly don’t mind day one patches, I just wish we’d had them sooner.

          • CaitSeith

            There is something weird about the existence of massive day-one patches. They are finished weeks after the development of the release version is finished. So, why not delay the release a few weeks and have the game ready to be certified and shipped with the day-one patch already applied?

          • Don’t know don’t really care to be honest, patches download pretty quick anyways.

          • CaitSeith

            Most of time. But some of the recent AAA releases have such huge day one patches that it becomes really annoying for people with limited data cap and/or slow internet.

          • BAH!

            Then you must have avoided Battlefield and AssCreed, for starters.

            Also, it’s better they ship a playable product than rely on day-one patches. They don’t lack that capacity.

            And I don’t want to exaggerate, so I’ll acknowledge that the problem isn’t as bad as it seems. But it can still be pretty bad at times.

          • Assassins’s Creed yes I do avoid as i’m not a big fan of that franchise at all, Battlefield though i’ve been lucky with(though it probably helps that I only play the single player and never touched multiplayer)

          • Kyle Pierce

            True Crime NYC was unstable no matter what version you played. The gamecube version ran at like 15 fps, I ended up returning it the next day & kept playing TC:LA.

          • Kev’ Bryant

            It wasn’t *too* bad on PS2. But I’m always going to be lenient on a game that lets me plant drugs on grannies….

            How about Ghosthunter? I’ve never played more than an hour or so because it turns out you can’t save it on PS2. That sucks.

          • I played the PC version and it was mostly fine since it came out a year after the console versions(it sometimes did crash to desktop, though that was easily remedied by saving often)

        • I disagree with that, I read a forum post by someone who had worked as a tester for True Crime: New York City, he mentioned how Activision knew the game had at least 6,000 bugs in it, but they shipped it out anyways.

          If you visit the Game Breaking Glitches page on TV Tropes, there’s quite a few PS2/GC/Xbox games on there.

          • BAH!

            I didn’t say “guaranteed bug-free”, I said “less likely”.

      • ENAY

        Name me at least 5 games on PS2 which had game breaking bugs that couldn’t be fix. Driver 3 doesn’t count 🙂

        • True Crime: New York City, Enter The Matrix, Escape From Monkey Island, GTA: San Andreas, Tony Hawk’s Underground 2, Jax X Combat Racing, Spyro: Enter the Dragonfly, Jak 2 and all of the Tales games

          • ENAY

            Good list, good list. I do remember Enter The Matrix and Escape From Monkey Island. However considering the thousands of games on PS2 that had few or no bugs at all. Almost every AAA game have bad bugs in them these days.

  • Marcus Cohen

    There really seem to be fewer and fewer reasons to buy a console these days. Even the exclusives don’t seem to be much of a deal, especially for people who have perpetually expanding and practically incompletable backlogs on Steam.

    • Personally I don’t really care about most Steam exclusives, i’m not really big on indie titles, I think the console exclusives are pretty good.

    • Janio

      Think the exclusive games are lossing ground , because the other systems will get a copycat game to fill it slot. Also how many big ip have not one or more bad apples in there lineup ?

      • Marcus Cohen

        There are definitely alternatives to anything. And not necessarily copycats. They don’t even have to be similar, just equally fun. For example, I’d love to play Bloodborne. It’s pretty much the only console exclusive game I care about. But will I buy another piece of hardware, technically inferior to what I already have, because of it? Probably not. Instead, I’ll play Baldur’s Gate II, The Witcher 3 or some other 100+ hour game that I’ve never actually finished. There are more games than free time, and I think many people are in the same situation where even one platform is too much.

  • Nivmarx

    I’m a console gamer and while I agree partially, especially with the uncompressed and huge game files, I still say that consoles are more convenient. I’ve had some really bad experiences with my PCs in the past, mine broke recently, and while I understand that some like the customizing and upgrading of a PC, I don’t have the money and the patience for that. If I buy a game for the PlayStation at least I have the guarantee that it works on my PlayStation.

    • Fyou

      Yep, plus you can just put it in sleep mode and download that stuff while you sleep. Problem solved. And if you’re the type that can’t wait? Pre-order and preload (at your own risk). Problem solved.

      • Nivmarx

        To my knowledge it doesn’t solve the post download install problem. As Jim said, they often don’t even tell you that it still has to install. I had that problem with Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 4. I bought the disc and it still installed for 2 hours, only letting me play free battles.

    • Dahak

      I’d say that is a problem with any system anymore. My rig has been running fine since I built it 2 years ago. I had to send my PS3 in for warranty repairs twice in 2 years before I basically stopped using it much. It took them the better part of 2 weeks each time to get me ‘my’ system back when all they did was send me a refurbished system while they refurbished mine. I demanded that they send back the original version too since I paid all that money for it and I wasn’t going to let them replace it with the cheaper one!

      • Nivmarx

        Well yeah, I guess I just have Bad luck with computers. To me consoles have just been more reliable. But I heard a lot of people complain about the PS3 especially. Maybe my next PC will convince me.

  • Trafalgar

    All they need to about the loadingscreen you get when starting a game that supposedly is installed is put some microtransactions there, voila its a game now!

  • Mr. Tastee

    Its easy to say that consoles were better back in the old days but you take the good with the bad. Being able to pop in a game and play it straight away and not having to fuss with installs and or patches is nice.

    However, being able to fix problems they were unable to prior to launch is good as well. Then again you could argue that this ability has been abused and more games get shoved out before being finished. They know they could sell a shell of a game and just finish it later. Preorders make this even easier.

    Consoles began their slow morph into PCs long ago. Firstly becoming multimedia machines, which you could argue began with the PS1. Now of course you have Sony and probably even more so MS wanting an all in one or should I say all in Xbox one machine that does it all.

    I think the main issue with these installs is its just a clear case of disrespecting the consumers time. As far as Sony or whomever is concerned it doesn’t really matter how long it takes. Similar to an Apple product, consoles have a walled garden so to speak and you play by their rules for whatever convenience you get. Besides they already got your money.

  • Dahak

    I stopped caring about consoles when they stopped making split-screen multiplayer games. I have always preferred PC for SP and online MP, but I used to love console for the ability to have friends over and everyone play on the same machine. Now almost all new titles that aren’t specifically ‘party games’ require you to play MP over the internet with each player having their own system. Consoles have taken almost all their advantages over PC and replaced them with what used to be the exclusive disadvantages of PCs… Thus I still have my completely functional PS3 (the original version too) which I use occasionally and my massive gaming rig which gets used constantly. I am just not going to shell out another half grand for a console that functions like a crappy PC with none of the advantages consoles used to provide.

  • Dany Rivest Gaudreault

    Those bandai still own the right to mini games in loading screen ? I know they were back in the days

  • MM

    Have you considered my idea of a “Fuck AAA News” with fuckups tidbits
    that can’t get into the main show? I bet nobody will complain if you
    still keep the “F*** Konami News” intro and title. =)

    • Kev’ Bryant

      Isn’t the whole show basically “Fuck AAA”?

      • MM

        haha Yes. Exactly. I was having trouble justifying it, but I guess “tidbits” could be it, more on the corporate side instead of the games (or the corporate shit that influenced the games/gameplay, since that’s also what he already covers). Say maybe how the company treats its employees, like Konami (most Japanese companies I suppose?) did.
        But I missed last episode and now I’ve seen Jim DID began to, let’s say, diversify the news to other companies, even creating a new section/column dedicated solely to Ubisoft! haha, great!

        Maybe in the future he’ll join the whole industry in 1 single section, as he gathers their fuckups over time. : )

      • Weasel Biggs

        I prefer to think of the JimQuiz as being “We Sure do Love our Vidyas, but Fuck if They don’t Make Us Depressed About Their Existence as Corporate-Mandated Products, Sometimes…”

    • Benj

      How about “AAArsehole of the week” as a segment title?

      It doesn’t quite work when said out load though like with the “Early AAAcess” video. He also sort of has this kind of thing covered with the Bullshit round up articles as well.

      • MM

        hahaha.. nice recall! 🙂
        True true, although I hardly have the time to read the stuff, so what could be done instead (since he already got the material) would be to include the “best” (worst of the worst? :)) at the ending. This could also work as a marketing for his own articles, so people like me could be enticed to “learn more” about what he’s talking about (and go read the article).

  • Hiroshi_Mishima

    I’ve talked about this in the past, how I used to own tons of consoles.. at least two per generation if counting handhelds. I never had the money for something like a computer, and even when I did I had to stick with it for like 8+ years due to lack of money for a whole new rig cause of how rapidly the technology changes.

    The appeal and affordability of a console was irrefutable back in the 80s and 90s. Unless you got all your games pirated, but there was always those silly copy protection passcodes and junk for PC games. No, it just was a more appealing platform for gaming, even you had a couple powerhouse titles like Monkey Island or Dark Forces. There was also a huge library of games that just DID NOT go to PC back in the day, to boot.

    This is of course completely different today. Barring handhelds and many mobile titles, there are very few console games that don’t make it to the PC. Either simultaneously or as a port a year or two later. Contrary to popular opinion not all ports are awful.

    So today, I don’t own any of the new consoles, just a 3DS that is mostly for emulating NDS games via a flashcard. I hate the updating culture of game systems and the constant “no way out” way that they and their obnoxious notifications work. Of course, Steam’s new “you’re updating whether you like it or not” policy now for any and all games is equally frustrating, especially when it breaks something. So in a way we’re screwed either way.

    But as some have said and Jim certainly attests, there is very little difference between consoles and computers these days and the advantages have almost totally vanished. Said advantage, of course, being exclusives. A concept that stopped being an effective bargaining chip during the 360/PS3 era if not sooner.

    I’m very tired and ranting so this is probably all over the place. My apologies.

    • diamond

      They have not totally vanished at all, on consoles I don’t have to worry about something like software randomly conflicting with my game like I do on PC.