The Jimquisition: Shadow Of More Dollars

http://www.patreon.com/jimquisition
http://sharkrobot.com/collections/Jimquisition-merch

Oh sorry, did you think we were NOT going to look at microtransactions coming to Shadow of War?

Did you think the appearance of loot boxes for a single-player game would escape my Sauronesque eye?

Did you really think I’d not take EVERY opportunity to bash something Warner Bros. has done?

If you don’t know me by now…

Chris Topher
Member

Meow xxx

Chris Topher
Member
Again jimbo says exactly what I was thinking. Within an hour of starting to worry about this game I see that I’m not alone. I hope that the game is fine without the extra crap but what really worries me is this… The way games are having gambling systems placed within without censor and that those companies also have ties to real world gambling and the easy links with can be drawn between the step from gaming to gambling as a result of these insideous practices. No idea if anyone is lookinghard scientifically at the effects it’s having on people… Read more »
Alexey
Member
Jim’s again, quite ignorant on that topic, to no surprise. Paid DLC’s are the future of gaming, its the only way companies can preserve that 60$ price tag with increasing production costs. What should be stressed though, is to witch degree the actual game is suffering, as a result of these practices. It does ruin immersion a great deal, encountering such things in a single player campaign. It would be smart of Jim to adjust his criticisms, providing ideas of how it could be done to lessen the damage to the game itself. As it stands though, another Jimquisition about… Read more »
Chris Topher
Member

I’d rather pay more money then. I’ll pay $100 for no micro transactions and free.dlc. no loot boxes or passes or subs. No more bs! Fuck your apologetic attitude which is dooming this industry and ruining it for people who aren’t stupid c*nt s!

Yoyo
Guest
Yoyo

I hope you aren’t being serious with this post….

VinLAURiA
Guest
VinLAURiA
Increasing production costs? Yeah, for what? Hiring big-name actors and launching massive marketing campaigns so they can suckily imitate Hollywood some more? “Farce” is a term I find myself using more and more often these days, and it’s exactly how I’d describe the state of the current game industry. Gaming never needed to be so expensive and there absolutely IS a point where the game has indeed made enough money. Oh, but that’ll piss off the shareholders, won’t it? Well guess what, they can go screw themselves. A game can be good and make money without neither the investment from… Read more »
JJake
Guest
JJake

Wait…what? Are you serious?

ushio
Guest
ushio

WB interactive is fighting for it’s life so I’m not surprised at this. Once the AT&T sale goes through why would a company that wants video content care about games it’ll be LucasArts and Disney all over again.

Arcane Azmadi
Guest
Arcane Azmadi

Let it fucking die.

ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
Guest
ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
Is no one gonna mention that that marketplace orc with the big hooked nose is basically doing the “greedy jew rubbing his hands together” meme hand motion? Like, am I seeing things? Is the anti-semitism coming from inside my head? It’s not like there aren’t orcs who don’t have the hook noses and there’s not really a need for that orc to even be there on the page designed to trick children into gambling money. Someone tell me I’m being oversensitive and seeing Le Happy Merchant Meme where it’s not, I guess it’s not got the full Watto from episode… Read more »
Kirk Hammer
Member

Rubbing one’s hands together with greedy anticipation is a fairly common gesture, though I know which image you’re referring to specifically. But giving him a hooked nose too was… unfortunate, and (though I’ve not heard this character speaking) if they have a full on mock-Yiddish accent like Watto then that is some uncomfortable imagery they’re playing with. Hopefully it’s not a deliberate invocation, though.

machine_dirty
Member

I never really saw Watto as a caricature.

Chris
Member
It is extremely obvious, almost as bad as the Trade Federation reps being really overtly racist, like world war two propaganda level, Japanese caricatures in their voices. Using an existing race as shorthand is a lazy but sadly common way of making aliens or fantasy races look or should”exotic” or “strange.” A lot of fantasy depictions of goblins fall into extremely anti semitic tropes, so I imagine the devs thought that they was just copying what WoW and blizzard did, which in turn copied from someone else, which in turn… Stretching far enough back no one has to ever think… Read more »
machine_dirty
Member

I was aware of the accusations against Jar-Jar being racist, but not the trade reps.

Chris
Member
I mean…it’s not really an accusation. Listen to them talk, they are doing the ‘l’ and ‘r’ swapping thing and everything. It would be impossible to say that someone wasn’t consciously directing the voice actors to speak in broken English while affecting a stereotypical Asian accent, whether you consider that racist or not I guess is up to you. But why someone would look at a race whose entire characterization is being sneaky and underhanded and greedy and then say ‘yeah…make them sound like Americans trying to sound Japanese in World War 2 movies’ and not be at least unconsciously… Read more »
InfamousDS
Member
InfamousDS
I think FF Online (both games) subverts this by having people be explicitly racist against the Goblins. They just want to be friends and integrate into society, be small business owners and adventurers that help people. But the “main races” treat them as tolerable at best, and most Goblins have to live underground and away from the cities. They are the most common “humanoid” enemy type, present the whole world over. This is as well as having their helpfulness refused on many occasions, outright distrust to the point Heavensward has a LONG quest series where you attempt to prove the… Read more »
InfamousDS
Member
InfamousDS
Thought of another reasons why MTs and MWs are horrid on the way to work. Single Console Households (SCH). Previously, you’d buy a DLC and every member of the SCH could use it because it was shared across the whole console. This is a consumer-friendly thing, since parents are unlikely to pony up 2 or more times for the exact same content and wouldn’t buy it just once for only one of their kids. It seems publishers figured this out near the end of the last console gen, since part of the X1’s “anti-piracy” shtick was the inability to share… Read more »
Steve
Guest
Steve

for me, there’s nothing to debate here. i’m simply not buying this game. ever. not even if it fell down to $10.

way too many other options aside from videogames competing for my time & money for me to have to tolerate this kind of blatant disregard for my patronage.

shame, too, because i thoroughly enjoyed the first game & was looking forward to the sequel.

Randy Markin
Guest
Randy Markin

I’m still going to pick up the game, and ignore the microtransactions. I really enjoyed the first game, and have been looking forward to this one for awhile.

machine_dirty
Member

At least get a used copy so WB does not get your money.

Chris
Member

And you are part of the problem then, because the message to WB is loud and clear, ‘no one will actually care what you do to your games.’ They won’t ever change unless a game like this tanks on launch.

Goran
Guest
Goran
To be fair, if buyer’s just wouldn’t buy the lootboxes it’d probably be enough of a message to WB, but we all know some whales will spent fortunes on PokeOrcs so unless the game is a huge financial drain they won’t take notice. Sadly, from a teach WB a lesson perspective, the game doesn’t look bad and even if it’s basically just doing the same as the first one willl most likely sell decently. It takes an Nadromeda kind of design failure to make people not buy/refund in mass, not fucked up systems for consumer exploitation. Those aren’t obvious enough… Read more »
KeekingItReal
Member

Unfortunately, that’s not true. Buying the game but not paying for microtransactions only sends the message that you don’t mind their existence, and that they need to push harder to convince you to pay for them.

machine_dirty
Member

I thought Andromeda was designed well for the most part and that game actually was a financial success.

Chris
Member

Such a financial success that they closed the studio and cancelled all future games in the franchise.

Yep, clearly a sign of a game that sold enough copies to please the corporate overlords. Sadly, these are the kinds of games people don’t buy, rather than the ones that are loaded down with anti-consumer bullshit like Shadow of War or Mankind Divided or Dead Space 3. If more people would skip those games maybe studios would stop saddling their single player experiences with microtransaction bullshit.

Goran
Guest
Goran

I looked it up now and, surprisingly enough, it was overall a financial success. Especially the online micro transactions generated quite some profit. (It was basically the flagship product in the EA earnings call.)

Still, the public reception seems to have killed any confidence EA had in further generating money from the current iteration of the franchise.

Goran
Guest
Goran

Intial sales maybe, but if it was an overall success they wouldn’t put the whole franchise on ice.

Robert Schrauben II
Member
Hey Jim! Don’t know if you will read this, but if you think ‘THIS’ is bad, go look up a game called Fortnite. They took it one step further by charging above and beyond AAA prices for an EA game while also not advertising it as EA on box sales. To make it even better, you have multiple packages you can pick up that range from like $60 to $250 beyond the base price of the game. Then on top of that, they added in micro-transaction llama pinatas to gamble for loot after completely scrapping the original concept of the… Read more »
Jiryn
Member
Jiryn

You forgot to mention that FortNite is a pre-release game, which will be released for FREE in early 2018.
They are basically charging you for a BETA, Pre-release build and it says it on every page of the game when you play it.

cridia
Guest
cridia

Wait, how is that any better? They are charging you for an incomplete game to make the game free once it’s out? I could understand a little if Fortnite was from some small studio that didn’t have anything else to rely on, but the game is co-developed by Epic, which is by no means a small player strapping for cash.

Jiryn
Member
Jiryn
As Goran said, I pointed it out because it makes it even worse. They are selling a BETA/PRE-RELEASE for a FREE TO PLAY GAME with MICROTRANSACTIONS for $40 Base $60 Deluxe $80 Limited (Limited my ass) $150 Ultimate $250 Complete editions (This was later added) The $150 and $250 come with additional keys you can give to friends, my roommate bought the $150. I admittedly bought the $60 and enjoyed the game for a good 20hrs, now.. I barely touch it. The free keys and the $40 are the same as the Free to play accounts which will be available… Read more »
Alexey
Member

Don’t buy it then

Goran
Guest
Goran

I’m pretty sure he Jiryn mentions that as something that makes it even worse.

Jiryn
Member
Jiryn

Exactly, thank you!

machine_dirty
Member

Damn Epic has really gone downhill since Cliffy B left.

Pedro Paramo
Guest
Pedro Paramo

Great timing on this video, considering that less than a week ago superbunnyhop made a video talking about big game companies making tons of money and then sending that money to tax heavens to avoid taxes.
And still they have the nerv to say that “videogames are to expensive! we need to make money somehow!”.

Christopher Allen
Guest
Christopher Allen

I’m starting to think Jim doesn’t like Warner Bros. very much.

Nitrium
Member

How long have “AAA” games cost US$60 now? Are games immune from inflation for some reason? Movie tickets keep going up to cover the ever increasing costs of blockbuster film production costs (as does most everything else, like food, electricity etc), why haven’t “AAA” games followed suit? Instead of simply charging $65 (which would have been the obvious thing to do imo), they instead fill games with microtransactions, DLC, skins etc to recoup expenses (i.e. keep their cost/profit ratio intact). Perhaps they make more money from microtransactions in a $60 than simply charging $65 or $70 for the same game?

Giorgos Katsas
Member

So . . . CDPR made a game that’s almost 3 times as big. But their business model is entirely different.

But to quote Jim’s vid, if you cannot make your money back with season passes, preorder bonuses and all the other stuff and you have to stick in MT in there, you have no idea about how to make money. Full fucking stop.

Christoph Brinkmann
Member

Apparently you’re oblivious to the “super duper preorder extravaganza” versions where the publishers charge $70, $80, $90, in some cases $300 a pop AND THEN still charge for DLC, and microtransactions ON TOP OF THAT. Congrats on somehow being oblivious for the last decade.

Nitrium
Member

Not at all. I’m simply talking about the base game pricing model.

F..
Guest
F..

From the viewpoint of these large publishers, you are actually no longer buying games, but allowing content delivery platforms on your system.

Superbunnyhop mentioned, in his video about tax-evasion, that blizzard-activision has been constantly decreasing their spending in the period that their income has been increasing massively. This shows how profitable their microtransactions have become. So: yes, they make more money this way.

Jiryn
Member
Jiryn

They found $60 was the sweet spot, kind of like new DVDs/BLU-RAYS usually retail for around $20.
Lower makes people feel like they are getting a budget game
More makes people feel they are getting ripped off

machine_dirty
Member

There actually was a time when games were 70-80 dollars, that was back when Nintendo had the oh-so-brilliant idea to continue using cartridges in spite of the fact that everyone else had moved on to using CDs instead, that of course led to games being harder to developer for the N64 and with cartridges being more expensive to make then CDs, that led to N64 games being more expensive new then games on any other console.

Appretaur
Guest
Appretaur

I imagine that part of the reason companies genuinely could never get away with $70-baseline-cost games without immense public backlash is because that would be a price increase that affects absolutely everyone intending to buy it, including those that only care about the base game and no extra purchases. Fewer would want to buy something listed at $70 at all.

Nitrium
Member

They get away with it in other entertainment item areas like movie tickets for example though. Why can’t games simply be more expensive and get rid of all of the microtransactions which is what we all want? Imagine if this business model was adopted in other entertainment fields – e.g. you pay for a movie ticket, but the extra scene at the start/end of film is gated off (equivalent to DLC) or you get ultra uncomfortable seats (equivalent to forced grinding) or something equally egregious unless you pay a fee.

machine_dirty
Member

Because you know publishers won’t do that, i’m sure publishers would LOVE to make games more expensive and still have MTs.

Cobra_IronFang
Member
Cobra_IronFang
The more I hear about the shady shitty practices that these “AAA Games Companies” deal in the more I can almost come to believe that scum like Digital Homicide ain’t that bad. Now run with me on this, I know they are crazy people with no concept of reality but at least they only charge you once and leave it at that. True all the crap they sell has no effort put in and is overpriced… but at least they only charge you once… with no DLC and no DAMMED MICROTRANSACTIONS. So ye that’s how bad its gotten in some… Read more »
machine_dirty
Member

I would not go that far, for as bad as publishers can get, there are lots of great games that wouldn’t exist without them, whereas companies like DH have produced absolutely nothing of worth or value to anyone(aside from snark bait for people like Jim).

If a game is good enough I can ignore the microtransactions(I.E. Dead Space 3, Mankind Divided) but there’s no ignoring how shite DH’s games are.

Appretaur
Guest
Appretaur
“You faithless, doubtless, little… fools.” Wouldn’t you say that doubtless is the complete opposite of faithless in the context of this sentence? Anyway, I think this episode didn’t spend enough time hammering home the particular point that part of why this latest microtransaction story is worse than ever is because it’s also being used as pay-to-win for the multiplayer component. A pay-to-win element in which the orcs you get from the loot chests can be lost and killed while engaging in the multiplayer if you’re trying for the high ranks specifically, and you are incentivized to be highly ranked and… Read more »
machine_dirty
Member

I hope TotalBiscuit does a video essay on this particular topic, he loves going into detail about that sort of thing.

Truehare
Guest
Truehare

“Shelob breathes through her skin.”

Damn you, Jim, you start the video with that, how can it get better from there?

Well, guess I’ll have to stop laughing, unpause the video and find out, won’t I?

Benj
Member
Benj

I think you the argument of “microtransactions imply that playing less of the game is a reward” thing is definitely a good argument to keep making because it affects everyone.

The whole immorality/ exploitation side doesn’t reach a large group of people because too many gamers enjoy the smug superiority of knowing that other people will buy them but they won’t.

This way the real gamer who grinded for 5 hours is as big of an idiot.

Olyphantastic
Guest
Olyphantastic
I never really believe that much in the gambling aspect, as I never really carred that much about skins. But then the god damn micro-transactions for Playerunknown Battlegrounds came, and I become obsessed by getting either the school girl out for my chick, or the instructor girl outfit, both from the Battle Royale film. So you use your BP points to get a crate, you can only get max six a week, and they get more expensive. The developers don’t sell crates, but they sell keys, $2,5.Has an okay player I get 3 a week if I get 1200 bp… Read more »
machine_dirty
Member

I’m not OK with MTs of any kind in full-priced games, i’m so goddamned happy I don’t give a rats ass about cosmetics.

LegendaryFrog
Guest
LegendaryFrog
I still cannot understand why people will spend money on micro-transactions. Some types of DLC, I can understand. I picked up the Witcher 3 DLC packs, but those were whole new scenarios with new locations, voice acting, skills, cut scenes and stories. Spending real money on crafting materials, experience boosters and one time use items is so profoundly stupid I don’t understand why people don’t rage against the producers. If the game is set up to goad you into buying an experience booster by lowering the experience gained then the producer is just using you and you should be angry… Read more »
Sam
Guest
Sam

I still cannot understand why people will spend money on micro-transactions. Some types of DLC, I can understand

You just unanswered your own question in 2 sentences

Jiryn
Member
Jiryn
A perfect reminder at the end. DLC is fine, but a game should never be advertising and offering a pre-order of the DLC days, weeks, or even months before the game is released. It makes me, and many others feel like we’re getting nothing more than an early access while they release more content, which they already have done and are advertising.. even though it may not be the case. I will admit, I ashamedly bought a loot chest last week. However, it was for a F2P game to see what you get for the value.. and no, it wasn’t… Read more »
Jiryn
Member
Jiryn
(Had to make a second post) I literally have begun to refuse to buy WB games at release due to their shady, and crappy practices. When a game has the friggan gull to not only advertise their DLC and Season Passes before the game is releases, but even show you what you’ll be missing if you don’t buy the DLC or Season Passes MONTHS in advance.. I view the initial release as nothing more than an early access game. Needless to say, almost every WB game has had a “Complete Edition” released within 6-8 months of the initial release, which… Read more »
Jiryn
Member
Jiryn
As I said last week, I actually know someone who was working for Monolith and had worked on Shadows of War and designed the initial system for the MicroTransactions… when they saw someone bitching about the Microtransactions a few weeks ago, this is what they had to say. “heh someone complaining about microtransactions in Shadow of War. I designed that system. Or at least the first version of it. No idea what it looks like now lol they always think it’s the executives. ^__^ We designed it from the beginning, totally an in-studio decision. You can kinda says it’s indirect… Read more »
machine_dirty
Member

Well in a way it WAS the execs, they may not have come up with the system, but i’m sure WB made several not so subtle suggestions to Monolith to put MTs in the game if they wanted things to go smoothly, so I have no doubt Monolith were worried that if they didn’t put the system in right away WB would be very unhappy with them.

TheLivingWeapon
Guest
TheLivingWeapon
At E3 I was seriously hyped for Shadow of War and not so much for Assassin’s Creed Origins which looks like more of the usual bollocks. But now I just do not care about new Middle-Earth anymore. Cry about them micropayments being “optional” however you like, I still won’t touch it because of the mere fact that WB tries to pry my wallet open – right after I’ve already paid for a full-priced AAA release. This and Shelob just turned me off to the point where I doubt I’ll buy the game even at 75% off. That way WB Games… Read more »
Archmike
Member

No but really Jim you should get down off the fence and say what you feel 😉 xxx

MuddyScarecrow
Member

If game development really was as expensive as the industry and the propagandists (I’m totally using that word to describe overzealous fans of video game companies now) say then the indie game industry shouldn’t even exist. Seriously, if video games really need this bullshit to make their money back how the fuck does Enter the Gungeon manage to exist without a loot box system that allows you to gamble money for their banana and pillow guns? I know the obvious argument will be that Indies don’t spend that much money but…why the fuck does AAA need to?

Benj
Member
Benj

Exactly!

If you believe in capitalism at all then you should think that companies should respond and anticipate the market. Not that a company is entitled to profits purely because they invested a fuck ton of money.

You can’t have a truly competitive marketplace if bad decisions have no consequences.

Jiryn
Member
Jiryn

That’s literally the difference.
All AAA Means is the time, money, and manpower spent making the game and nothing else.

The original Demons Souls and Dark Souls were NOT AAA, they were made by a small team on a very limited budget and they soared, they earned their fame, through gameplay and word of mouth.

Bilateralrope
Guest
Bilateralrope

Don’t forget marketing budgets.

dyscode
Member

Perfect Landing!
I was sooo close to preordering it back in June (being offered 30% off surely was enticing) when I got wind of microtransactions – time to let go. When the GOTY is $5 I’ll take a look at it again.

Loved the 1st one.

KeekingItReal
Member
You know, you made the exact same points before across multiple videos, but have them all come together in one video made this one of the most articulate arguments against microtransactions I’ve seen so far. It’s baffling that I still hear people arguing against these exact points even now, because… Well, there IS no argument. The opposition just shuts down any conversation to be had by saying “I don’t care” (oftentimes jumping into a conversation they weren’t part of just to explicitly say “I don’t care” (and if you didn’t care why did you [email protected]#&ing bother replying)) and ruining it… Read more »
Anton
Member
Anton

The problem is, gamers are children – either literally, or just mentally – that are beholden to brand names above everything. If you criticize anything, however legitimate, about their favorite toy, they will fight you, then go home and spend their allowance on loot boxes. As long as this kind of blind loyalty exists – aka until the world ends – publishers will exploit it and the rest of us are fucked.

guy smiley
Member
guy smiley

Maybe in the future, when loot boxes for real money in games becomes illegal, or at least regulated, it might change. But really, they’d just exploit ppl some other way :/

Pity Ubisoft or whoever caved a while ago, when some kid racked up a $1000+ bill for his dad’s credit card. If they hadn’t backed down, and given the money back, he could’ve sued them for exploitation of a minor or something, iunno, introducing gambling to children maybe, and gotten the ball rolling on regulation of this stuff much sooner.

Charles
Guest
Charles

It’s mind boggling alone that the kid could rack up $1000+ on just Ubisoft games. Sure, it’s across multiple games (I hope), but still, that’s insane! Even between 4 games, I can’t possibly imagine anything over $400 in DLC. And that’s being generous!

Anton
Member
Anton

Yeah, I keep waiting for a law to drop that reclassifies MTs as gambling, but I’m starting to think I shouldn’t hold my breath.

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