The Jimquisition: Shadow of Warner Bros.

https://www.cancerresearch.org/how-you-can-donate-now
https://donate3.cancer.org
https://www.stbaldricks.org/donate
https://www.youcaring.com/michael-forgey-479259

It was sincere and touching, and that’s all it should’ve been, but the decision to charge for content honoring the late Mike Forgey altered the conversation.

Alright then, let’s get into this mess.

Drake Warnock
Guest
Drake Warnock
I agree that this is probably just habit for them. My guess is the developers themselves were sincere. They wanted to put the character in the game to honor their friend. Given he was known for swooping in and saving the day making him do that in game is actually pretty cool. But then the publishing took hold. After the content was decided on it went up the chain of command and some middle manager looked at it and just slapped on a price tag with some of it going to charity without really thinking about it. Now if they… Read more »
RabidKitten
Guest
RabidKitten
Here is how I think this went down. A) Someone at Monolith pitches this idea to a producer at WB. B) WB asks how much this extra will cost to develop and Monolith gives them a number probably pretty high (new model, texture, code, sound, animation testing etc). B) WB producer asks around and comes back with “you can make it but we gotta make it DLC” or something. D) Monolith accepts. E) They announced it and receive backlash. PR looks at said producer who greenlit this as DLC and is like “WTF were you smoking, lets put out this… Read more »
Charlie
Guest
Charlie

Sorry if this question seems a bit unrelated, but I was wondering if there was ever a good time to buy a game such as this. I don’t want to support Warner Bros. at all, but I would like to play Shadow of War since I enjoyed the previous game. So my question is: is there a time where I can buy Shadow of War while giving Warner Bros. as little money as possible? Should I wait for the inevitable GOTY edition to drop in price? Is there a Jimquisition I can watch that covers this topic? Thanks in advance.

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

I’d suggest waiting for GOTY if you don’t want to give WB money for dlc. Regardless of which edition you get buying used will help avoid giving WB money.

Terry Osaurusies XI
Guest
Terry Osaurusies XI

Pre-owned buying is what I do for that, as the money goes entirely to the store selling them. 🙂

Chris
Member

Which would be great, unless that store is GameStop who is in its own way a massive problem with the industry with the way it pushes pre order culture and fights against digital distribution and lower pricing

Terry Osaurusies XI
Guest
Terry Osaurusies XI

As a UK human-mound, we don’t have GameStop. But our equivalent is Game, who represent highly corporate ball sucking sleaze practices with unpleasant management towards staff. So I should specify I meant the more independent stores, which one here I find really great for participating in trade is CEX. 🙂

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

But if the only game store near you is a Gamestop, you don’t have much of a choice.

Chris
Member

You can shop at a store that doesn’t only sell video games, one that doesn’t fight to keep the industry from improving using their near monopoly on that specialized game market to force companies to make concessions to them like pilling on pre order bonuses or not lowering prices of digital games to below retail prices.

But hey, it’s your money, use it at whatever sleazy, parasitic part of the industry to support whatever abusive AAA practices you want.

Michael Wolfe
Guest
Michael Wolfe
Console? Avoid GameStop; they are part of the problem with the current industry in gaming. Buy off someone on eBay or the like. It’s likely stolen or accidentally got two for birthday gifts or something similar. PC? Normally I shun grey market sites like G2A for the very reason you just described, but this is where they can be more the blessing than the curse. Most keys sold on grey market sites are bought through countries with the lowest prices on these games, and resold at profit. Some are instead acquired via credit card fraud. Keys from other countries are… Read more »
machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

I’d rather give my money to Gamestop then WB.

InfamousDS
Guest
InfamousDS
If the PR reps are to be believed, GameStop (and GAME to an extent since they are synonymous), not Gearbox, is the reason “We Happy few” planted, grew, then jumped down the highest branch of the bullshit tree to hit every obstacle on the way down except microwagers and fake currency. Just because the specific store you like isn’t a rancid cesspool doesn’t mean the corporation itself isn’t a rancid cesspool. I have close personal friends that work in GameStops. Relatives, too. They don’t complain, and I’ve never been bullied except at stores where they don’t know my face. But… Read more »
Chris Topher
Guest
Chris Topher
The best time is when you choose to buy with all the facts. If you want to support these practices or support the family in some small way or just gaming as this money fuels it, then do what you choose and the state of gaming will be a reflection of its users. Me personally, I’d wait until it was on eBay for £15 less in a month or so then pick it up and only buy story dlc which has quality. Ithe best time will be after the reviews and patches though. Beyond this support people like Jim and… Read more »
Arcane Azmadi
Guest
Arcane Azmadi
You know, Jim, if I were you, I’d simply refuse to review the game now, or any other game by Warner Bros Interactive. I mean, you can do that, you know. You’re an independent critic, you’re not beholden to anybody, and if publishers aren’t sending you a review copy (and I’m pretty sure they’re not) then you’d be perfectly justified in simply refusing to give WB any of your money because fuck them with splintery sticks. I mean yeah, maybe it’ll be a good game, but how many good games have you already got to play? How many other good… Read more »
Chris Topher
Guest
Chris Topher
That’s a terrible idea so I down voted you. How can Jim stay professi Hal if he starts refusing to review or talk or xxx a game. That’s not his job that’s our job. Jim is here to review ideas , games, companies , business practices etc and then comment his opinion to help us. The best thing Jim can do is to review this game professionally and fairly including the gambling etc and state if he thinks it effects it or is it just an extra. Never ignore or hide or refuse to give your opinion if you believe… Read more »
Von Heimlich
Guest
Von Heimlich

I think I would be okay with it if you know warner bro. donated that money to a charity for cancer research or help out the family, but yeah this is just gross.

Kirk Hammer
Guest
Kirk Hammer

So does this put an end to the idea that Monolith are some poor, helpless hostage in this situation and it’s Warner Brothers forcing them to do this? Because in any normal workplace finding out that your bosses are monetizing your dead colleague would be grounds for open revolt.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

No, there’s no reason to believe Monolith had anything to do with this.

Chris
Member

You know, except for the fact that they are promoting it in their streams and show no signs at all of minding what’s going on.

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

I know right, do you think WB might want us to buy it?.

Chris
Member

You might also think Monolith does too. It’s almost like that’s the corporate culture at both companies at this point and trying to distinguish between them and claim one might be blameless is probably pointless.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Not really no, I highly doubt Mike’s friends and colleagues would were OK with this.

Chris
Member

Again, proof? Or do you just like their games and thus they can’t be doing anything wrong?

They made the DLC, no one has a gun to their head making them promote it either. WB surely deserves blame and scorn for this, but we have no reason at all to think monolith is totally off the hook.

Kirk Hammer
Guest
Kirk Hammer

They *LITERALLY* made it. WB didn’t sneak in and create, animate, integrate and voice-act the character overnight once everyone but the cleaners had gone home.

Chris Topher
Guest
Chris Topher
In the case of devs ex the devs didn’t know until the last minute which caused them to bravely state their opinion and stress they weren’t aware. Monolith has done nothing but support this dlc so I say bs that they didn’t know or agree in advance. The conversation goes like this. ‘We want to do a character to honour our fallen friend’, ‘Great that’s a great idea…so sad what happened but let’s make this a win about him and maybe help the family?’ ‘Oh yeah but then we’d have to charge…as dlc….also some peopl,e might not like the dead… Read more »
Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

Exactly what do you expect Monolith’s staff to do? Should they march on WB’s HQ, pitchforks and torches in hand? It literally doesn’t matter what anyone at Monolith thinks because WB owns the company and can do what they want. Besides, we don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors. For all we know they’re arguing about this right now and at the end of the week things’ll have changed.

Kirk Hammer
Guest
Kirk Hammer

Think of the number of people involved in making, okaying, integrating and promoting this DLC, everyone else at the company who would have been aware of this and the amount of time it took to make this DLC. The fact that not a single one of them has broken ranks or tipped off the press before now (when developers have done so over far less) makes it very likely that they’re kneeling before the almighty dollar just the same as WB.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Or ya know that they were concerned about potentially being fired by WB.

Kirk Hammer
Guest
Kirk Hammer

Again, anonymous tips are how we found out about Square Enix’s meddling with Deus Ex and other franchises, Konami being Konami and many other injustices in the gaming industry. The fact that not a single person at Monolith considered their pubisher *monetizing their colleague’s recent death* as grounds to do likewise suggests they’re just fine with it. Much like those lootboxes they were supposedly forced to put into the game. And promote. And do a livestream about how excited they were to have them in the game.

Chris Topher
Guest
Chris Topher

I agree so I up voted you. They are reeling from his death and worried about their job and mortality . I’d be amazed if many agree and btw it’s not that much work to make this happen. But the fact that no one has said anything is slightly worrying unless they are all in a bubble which can happen and they don’t see the issues or genuinely weren’t aware of the final conflicts.

Steve
Guest
Steve

i couldn’t help but notice the screen-shot of the article titled:
” ‘Shadow of War’ Has Micro-Transactions. You’ll Get Over It.”

yea, no, that’s not ever gonna happen.

what will happen, though, is whoever says that to me will sooner “get over” me telling them to go f*** themselves before i ever ‘get over’ MT’s in a game that has the nerve to charge me $60 upfront.

because my stance is never changing.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

game journalists like that can go fuck themselves.

Arella Jardin
Member
Arella Jardin

Just to be cynical, the average consumer will get over it. Most people don’t give a shit, or if they do, it’s only so far as it doesn’t inconvenience them. They’ll bitch about it right up until release, then buy it anyway. That’s how we got to this point.

Nitrium
Member

They won’t be selling many of these lame lootboxes on the PC version. I’m sure there will be a “+12 Trainer” for it within a day or two to give you “unlimited in-game currency” by hitting Num 5 or whatever. GameCopyWorld is packed to the brim with trainers (usually 3 or 4 for every game/version) for every PC game basically ever released. Microtransactions in single-player PC games is just never going to bring in much money imo. This DLC might be slightly different, depending on if it’s already in the game or not.

Kirk Hammer
Guest
Kirk Hammer

Unfortunately that adage about convenience being the best defence against piracy also applies here, too. Much like the number of people willing to buy an NES Classic vs those willing to learn how to assemble a Raspberry Pi and emulate on it, I suspect enough people will just pay WB to give it to them rather than learn to use a trainer.

No name
Guest
No name

That’s actually a counterexample. Buying a NES Classic is NOT convenient – most of the people who try to buy NES Classics already had emulators but were going out of their way to try to support Nintendo and do things “legitimately”.

ArtSolopov
Member

Wow. Just wow. They just weren’t able to resist, now were they?
I can just see it, the devs working on the tribute, an Easter egg of sorts…
And then some corporate fucknut said, “You know what? This will be a $5 DLC.”
And the devs groaned and grumbled but could do nothing because Corporate Decidez.

I hope that whoever made this decision chokes on their filthy money. And I hope that after they die, they become an orange construct for Larfleeze. They fucking deserve it.

Steve
Guest
Steve

I wish I could have as much fun with toys as Jim does

Gennadios
Guest
Gennadios

Well, I cancelled the pre-order after the orcs in chests, training orders only from chests kerfuffle hit. When I saw the Forthog DLC trailer I pretty much thought to myself that WB is fucking things up further somehow. I couldn’t be fucked to read the fine print, but there we go.

Stay classy, WB!

Chris
Member

Just take that as a lesson. Never. Ever. Ever pre-order a AAA game, it will always bite you in the ass.

Arella Jardin
Member
Arella Jardin
I was fine with everything, up to the point where they buried the info about purchases that wouldn’t contribute to the charity. Big splash page saying $3.50 of every purchasegoes to charity, with tiny disclaimer no one would read. They’re hoping people will buy it out of the desire to contribute, but not notice that their money is going straight to WB. I know people in Europe and Canada that were on board with this, and were surprised when it was explained they wouldn’t count. Any instance where they charge (and keep) $5 with the pretense of honoring a dead… Read more »
Aotrs Commander
Guest
Aotrs Commander
With regard to That Dragon Cancer, I’m pretty sure the numerous media outside the gaming industry that has had people who have suffered such tragedies express themselves through said media over the centuries (where in the media – e.g. books etc) is generally regarded as being a positive examples of expression, not an exercise in making money. (Some of) gaming seems to just be more intolerant, sadly. And I blame places like WB for that, because if they hadn’t basically attempted to train everyone to see anyone selling a game as a greedy pile of excrement through their sheer contempt… Read more »
MuddyScarecrow
Guest
MuddyScarecrow

Yeah, I’m a little baffled at them demanding Dragon Cancer should’ve been free. Don’t remember anyone complaining about paying for a ticket to see Fault in Our Stars. =/

Chris
Member

Yeah, but gamers as a whole are far more entitled and assholish than the kind of people who go to see movies like that.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Some of the backlash against that game came as a result of the creators DMCAing youtube videos of the game(they called it “theft”) which I have to saw lowered my sympathy for them.

MuddyScarecrow
Guest
MuddyScarecrow

“I hate cancer. Who doesn’t?! It’s not a controversial statement!” I dunno, Jim…Five years ago “Fuck Nazis” wasn’t a controversial statement either and now look where we are. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if some political wingnuts started advocating for cancer rights. Not cancer PATIENT rights. The rights of the actual cancer.

JackieGoOutside
Guest
JackieGoOutside

Cancer cells are human too!

MuddyScarecrow
Guest
MuddyScarecrow

XD Yes, exactly that’s my point.

Charlie
Guest
Charlie

You have no right to cure that cancer! What if it doesn’t want to be cured, you insensitive, murderous, scum? Did you even ask how it feels about being cured?

ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
Guest
ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

Actually you use Cancer cells in a lot of human cellular biology study, especially in oncology where we use cancer cells (go read a book called “The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks” if this piques your interest) to develop cures for cancers.

So…

*Drum roll*

…#NotAllCancerCells

drownedsummer
Guest
drownedsummer

I just love the way it states the money is only going to charity until the end of 2019.

VinLAURiA
Guest
VinLAURiA
I dunno, man. I know Konami has become of spite and incompetence, disrespecting franchises, pretending folks like Kojima don’t exist, and treating their employees like garbage, but even THEIR maliciousness was never this… utterly detestable. This is taking something done to honor the memory of a dead man and shoving it in the gnawing, grinding gears of the machine that is corporate-minded decision making in the modern game industry to spit it out as another cash-grab, with all the usual mannequin-faced attitude around it. Legacy means a lot to me. Screwing over living people like Konami is bad, yeah, but… Read more »
VinLAURiA
Guest
VinLAURiA

*become a hive of spite and incompetence

(Nice one, Vin…)

RomaDoma
Guest
RomaDoma

Obviously not defending WB here, but Konami has been using its clout in Japan to make it so that ex-employees can’t get health insurance. Pissing all over the legacy of a dead man for profit is monstrous but Konami is potentially just making more dead people. So basically the whole industry is full of fucked up people.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Yeah, even Activision’s triple-dipping of Modern Warfare remastered pales in comparison to trying to guilt-trip and trick your own customers into giving you more money by being horribly misleading about the terms of service.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Don’t know why WB couldn’t have just taken a page from what Gearbox did to honor Michael Mamarill in Borderlands 2.

I don’t think WB gives a crap about Forgey, so yeah I do think this was pure greed on their part, they want to shamelessly guilt trip people into buying that DLC.

R.M.Renfield
Guest
R.M.Renfield
Unrelated to this issue, but have you ever thought of looking at what’s happening with Star Citizen, Jim? I watched their demo at Gamescom and laughed my arse off at how bad it was. Then I went down the rabbit hole and read all the Chris Roberts Vs Derek Smart stuff – Jesus, it’s another internet war out there. Seeing how polarised things are I can see why you might not want to touch this one, but it does seem weird to me that CiG are STILL selling ships for huge money when the game basically doesn’t exist. Check out… Read more »
Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

Jim’s said he doesn’t know enough about the genre never mind the game to cover it. He talks about it at the start of the Wing Commander Spin Off Doctors episode.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Jim said that Star Citizen isn’t really in his wheelhouse since he’s unfamiliar with games like that.

But yeah I agree with you, i’ve been suspicious of that game for years.

R.M.Renfield
Guest
R.M.Renfield

Ok, looking at the vitriol from both sides I think anyone would think twice even if it was your thing.

I know Total Biscuit thinks the sale of ships is a load of bollocks, though.

Even so, I’d advise anyone to watch the Gamescom demo just because it’s funny.

The Vaark
Guest
The Vaark
Very sad to see this, given that most likely the whole thing sprang up from a very sincere desire to honor and help on the part of the devs. Leaves me with two questions: 1. How likely is it that the sale as DLC was a prerequisite to WB authorizing the development in the first place? Is the control of publishers so total that the devs couldn’t memorialize someone without very strict conditions? (A possible alternative being the devs – like many journalists – naively overlooked the sale-donation fine print. ) 2. About WB’s resilience to shame: are we dealing… Read more »
Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

As much as I’d like to buy this since I think it’s a really good way of making a tribute I can’t do it in good conscience, at least until it’s confirmed what happens with money from purchases made in the UK.

If WB are insistent on selling it then surely it would have been better to make a donation matching whatever they made from sales, it’d still be shitty but far better than this. Really though, this should be free or in the base game.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

I live in Illinois so even if I was interested in this game and it’s DLC, all my money would go to WB.

Stephen
Guest
Stephen

The obvious way of handling it would have been making the character free dlc with a ‘please consider giving $5 to his families donation page until such a time it closes, at which point these are the cancer charities they wish donations to go to’ – Maybe with a donation matching thing as well.

*sighs*

Amy
Member
It’s quite an achievement to mess this up; especially given that Blizzard has done it a number of times, and therefore there is a model of sucess that already exists. I have no issue with WB taking a cut as long as the lion share goes to the family; however given how limited in scope the donations are it is hard to see anything else but malice. Sad state of affairs. I hope that in all of this the family is given space to grieve and get on with whatever pieces of their life they can put back together. All… Read more »
GreenGarden
Guest
GreenGarden

How did Blizzard do it?

Charlie
Guest
Charlie

Right before Overwatch came out, a fan eagerly anticipating the game passed away at 20. Blizzard honored him by putting his name on a space suit (a level prop) and writing next to it “heroes never die”. Also, Robin Williams became a character in World of Warcraft after he died, and WoW itself has many in game tributes and memorials to influential people and fans of the game.

Amy
Member

They have done a number of charity pets for money, all profits go to the charity and one time they couldn’t give the money in my region so they gave the pet away. The second time they did it, they were better prepared and just offered the money to a charity for that area.

Also as Charlie below said they have added a number of NPC’s to the game as a tribute.

Scott C Stewart
Member

i was sitting on the fence about buying this game, not any more; the game looks good, great even but i don’t want to give money to assholes, and i mean those who had the power to make this happen and to think this was good idea

Steve Neeley
Member

Great video Jim! I had a feeling that you’d talk about this today. Keep up the good work.

GS_Matthews
Member

Anyone else remember when a terminally ill Total War fan visited the studio and CA decided to honour him by mapping out his facial features and creating a unique (free) Roman general model that would appear in the game after he died?

Monolith could have done that.

wpDiscuz