The Jimquisition: Why Horizon: Zero Dawn‘s Success Is Good No Matter Who You Are

http://www.patreon.com/jimquisition
http://sharkrobot.com/collections/jimquisition-merch

I realize this will reinforce the “Sony Shill” thing (which is ironic if you’ve known me long enough to remember when I was the “anti-Sony bias Nintendo shill”), but Horizon: Zero Dawn‘s success is worth talking about.

The game’s doing well, and while those who loyally defend plastic machinery might think otherwise, that’s a good thing for everybody. Yes, even if you’re putting all your stock in the Switch.

  • SilentPony

    What’s this?! Jim didn’t praise Breath of the Wild the legally mandated amount again?!
    Feel the wrath of my terrifying computer virus that will bring this website down! https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0701e5ec59169c6931328231cf125c7e6170cee72a1da19b842e530bd328ec10.gif

    Seriously Jim, call Kenny Loggins. Your shilling for Sony has reached a whole new area. An area where there is danger.

    • Anton

      Hut hut, what whaaaaaat!

      …Shit, the virus got me.

    • InfamousDS

      Something something 1980’s.

    • Lewis Stonier

      Would you say a zone of danger?

    • cerpin

      Muy peligroso?

  • Better than Breath of the wild at least. heh

  • Dave Dogge

    I dare you, I double dare you Jim to review Mass Effect : Andromeda and give it a 9.5/10.

    • Plese, Jim has taste, so it is BVIOUS he is going to give it a 10/10 because Andromeda is SO perfect that even before playing it i can tell it’s objectively a masterpiece that totally doesn’t have wanky face animations!

    • galactix100

      Give every other release this year at least a 7.5 or higher

      • “yes, it is better than Breath of the Wild”

    • Wolfie

      FFFFFFUCKING DDOS THE FILTH, HOW DARE HE LIKE A GAME EVERYONE HATES WHICH IS FACT!!

    • Otherhand

      7.01 for maximum carnage.

    • Hunter Zolomon

      Go the whole way and give it GOTY as well.

  • Dallium

    If I can’t have Fuck Konami News or Oh, Ubisoft segments, I’m totally fine getting sweet Life Hacks

  • Wolfie

    Edit: “SJW” ALERT!

    So it has a girl on the cover, but the question is: how bangable is she? /s

    • Jamesworkshop

      30 bangs

      • Brendand

        How dare you Metacritic gives it 31.2 and any less is killing the industry

        • Anton

          Well, now you have to bang her more to offset the damage that James has caused.

          • Wolfie

            Fucking STANTON.

          • InfamousDS

            Son.

          • Wolfie

            I prefer Father Stanton, as long as he wears the plague doctor’s mask and robe…

            Oh wait, we’re talking about “Jim Fucking Sterling, son?” Forget I said anything.

    • Anton

      Based on how young she looks, I give her a Roman Polanski/10

  • Lies That Bind

    That IASIP music at the end had me chuckle sensibly “Jim sterling makes fun of the holocaust on the radio”

    • TheDeadFellow

      Alternatively, “Jim Sterling says something racist”.

  • Knight_Blazer

    Judging from the last frame of that video we will be hearing about Jim’s back pain for another year.

  • Kimarous

    “Horizon: Zero Dawn” is one of those titles that I’m happy is doing well despite having absolutely zero interest in the game proper. (shrug) Hunting robo-animals just isn’t my cup of tea.

  • Muddy Scarecrow

    That bit you said about the side quests in Horizon having an actual conclusion reminds me of what frustrated me so much about Watch_Dogs 1.Some of the collectible activities promised you a “Special Mission” if you found them all. Like finding all the serial killer victims or the human trafficking laptops. And I remember being kinda excited at that idea. Until I found out that the “special missions” were actually just a copy paste of the five or so types of mission the entire game had.

    Completing Serial Killer just gave you a crime prevention mission, completing human trafficking gave you a convoy mission and so on. And they always ended in an anti climax where Aden just grunts to himself “Welp guess that’s done then.” And then I eventually realized that the entire game is just made up of templates. Car chase templates, hacking templates, storming stronghold templates. There is absolutely no sense of organic flow because the game is pretty much made out of cookies that all use the same cutter. If Horizon side steps all that I’m even more excited for it.

    • Otherhand

      True, but for me WD1 worked. I liked the mission types, and especially the little fort situations where you fuck up a foreman and get out unseen. It’s a shame that this kind of gameplay didn’t carry into WD2 (although it’s better in many ways). Even if some situations look a bit similar, they just don’t play the same way.

    • darksteel6

      I actually really enjoyed those missions in Watch Dogs, to me it felt very organic to the gameplay, that’s one thing I missed in Watch Dogs 2, I liked shutting down the auction and the weapons traffickers, it was quite fun for me, Watch Dogs did not feel like a “template” to me at all, I enjoyed that game immensely.

  • LIFE HACK: Instead of yelling at people over arbitrary numbers on reviews or harassing people out of the industry for mildly janky face animations or whatever, just go play a fucking video game you enjoy. HACKED YOUR LIFE, SON.

    • Anton

      Instructions unclear, dick stuck in blender, life purpose lost, gonna go send some death threats on metacritic.

      • Weasel Biggs

        Aren’t you supposed to stick your dick in a fan’s blades, and not a blender?

        Er… LYFE HACKZZZ.

        Am I doing this right?

      • HaveSomeOatmeal

        Thanks for making me giggle like a moron while at work.

    • Benj

      LIFE HACK: Don’t be a cunt.

  • Anton

    Jim, I don’t know if it’s the lighting or the video editing, but you look like a corpse in this episode. That skin shade is fucking creepy.

    Oh, and another great Jimquisition.

  • Terriosaurus Hex

    Gingers need more representation. Especially lonely ones. *Sigh* Futurama may be the only thing thing willing to have a male ginge protag though.

    • Otherhand

      See also In The Flesh

      • Terriosaurus Hex

        Have heard of this title before, shall check it out, thankyou for the information 🙂 btw am not going to like anything more solely if it has male ginger protag, just at least respect the decision of the creator to give it a go. Am curious as to why it’s such an entertainment faux pas, well, not that curious. Just disappointed. :p

        • InfamousDS

          “Red-headed stepchild” comes to mind as to why this may not be an oft-used thing.
          South Park’s war against ginger folk may be another pillar in the temple of exclusion.

          • Terriosaurus Hex

            They certainly haven’t helped the soul collecting grand plan. Though not holding it against them. For now…

        • Otherhand

          It was a great BBC show, but YMMV! It was about a zombie outbreak, except it skipped the entire outbreak. It’s set afterwards, when life has gone back to normal and a cure has been found and administered. People are understandably nursing grudges, especially in small towns like the one in the story. Starred Domnhall Gleason, who went on to star in Black Mirror and Rogue One.

          You still get a complete story from the episodes they made. It’s just a shame that Series 3 was cancelled before production.

          • Terriosaurus Hex

            Sounds kinda different and interesting take on the genre. Always appreciated the creative output the BBC has been willing to fund, has led to some great experiences and no doubt will lead to more, I will have to coerce friends into this viewing soon.
            Black mirror is fantastic. I gotta get that off my chest. Charlie Brooker writes intriguing stuff!

    • John

      Andy Dalton sucks.

      • Terriosaurus Hex

        Not sure who that is :/

        • John

          Do you not have Google where you live?

          • Terriosaurus Hex

            I was hoping to be a cheeky cunt and see if you’d do it for me, as am not sure my search history needs any more assholes added to it 😉

          • John

            I’m torn between wanting to explain why I thought my initial comment was funny vs cutting my losses and walking away.

          • Terriosaurus Hex

            Ok I sacrificed my totes clean Google search history cos not getting jokes kills innocent kittens somewhere across the world, and now I finally understand! US sports is something hardly portrayed where I am. blame the system! ;D

  • Otherhand

    In addition to everything else (and I wish I could play this game but I can’t because no PS4), the art is superb. Here is a too-long dreary post [CONTAINS SKELETONS].

    Games models don’t tend to work over distance. They have detail, but often the detail breaks up badly across the model. HZD uses really smart use of detail and colour to focus attention. For example, the robot animals use high contrast schemes so that your eyes figures them out by their light-coloured plates. It’s like someone wearing a Halloween skeleton costume; even in situations where a background might mess up your ability to discern their edges, you still perceive their form and movement very well (arguably better than you would if that person was wearing ordinary clothes). You see the robots fine at a distance in all the ways you need to be able to read them, and when you get up close your eye is rewarded by all that extra fine detail.

    Similar things are going on with the humans: great arrangement of large detail in the chunkier armour plates, medium detail in the smaller pieces and high detail in the dense textures. It’s organised as a system, so that the most mobile and detail-rich parts grab your attention and pull in your focus. I know how basic this sounds, and of course HZD isn’t the only game to do it, but it does this phenomenally well with a very challenging range of character types.

    [eta] Also, you said “automata” in the orthodox way so thank God for you x

  • galactix100

    Can’t wait for the sequel that has a season pass, microtransactions and is focused on the main character’s long lost brother, Jack.

    • Keuriseutopeo

      Shouldn’t the brother be named Plaating? Rost -> Aloy -> Plaating

      • InfamousDS

        That would be too logical for a cynical cash grab. Puns need writers, and we can’t afford those any more since we spent #allthemoney on strippers, whores, coke and marketing. Mostly marketing.

        • Wolfie

          Yeah, well, I’m gonna start my own marketing firm! With blackjack! And hookers!

          In fact, forget the marketing firm!

          • InfamousDS

            I’m running away now!-> Okay. -> I’m serious! -> That’s fine. -> Really gonna do it! -> Have fun. -> I didn’t want to anyway!

      • galactix100

        Nah the videogame industry only knows 3 male names. Jack, Marcus and John.

  • Benj

    I hate that “A new game is really good and sold well, isn’t that nice” is probably going to be seen as a controversial statement by some people.

    • Anton

      It’s ok, you can say “Zelda fans”

      • Benj

        #notallzeldafans

        #whythehellwouldanyoneassumethat

        • Wolfie

          #alllinksmatter

          • Benj

            What about Linkle!

            Sexist!

          • Wolfie

            Linkle was only added for the game to get positive reviews by the sjw cucks!

            #reviewergate

        • Chris

          I always have to remind myself when people criticise zelda fans, they mean the psychotic zealots posting hate and death threats or idiotic arguments online… not people like me sitting quietly in the corner actually playing the game and having fun.

      • Bilateralrope

        Sure, this time it was Zelda fans. But I doubt they will be the only fandom to act that way.

  • Yaro

    Just came here to say that comix zone is my jam!!!

  • LatePocketwatch

    I’m sure this was said on the other video but I’m not digging through to upvote it. This site was the first I heard of HZD and explicitly tying it to Zelda made me realize I hadn’t played an actiony game in a while. So thanks for that fanboys, now I’m going to go back to playing since Aloy hasn’t fallen off the ledge.

  • John

    I noticed you zoomed in on Link’s face while saying you hate some games more than others. I love it you cheeky bastard.

  • GreenGarden & 5th DD Clone

    Hi Jim, I post this before, but I hope this cheers you up, enjoy (:

    “Will somebody cue that damn troll?!”

    Samurai Reviewer Boglins.
    Oh yeah!
    Who do you call when you want some Journalizm?

    Samurai Reviewer Boglins
    Right on!
    They’re stampin’ out game mechanics and you know that ain’t semantics.

    There’s Jim Stirling: he wears a suit and tie.
    A heck of a reviewer, Makes a heck of a bi.

    And Laura Kate Dale who’s never afraid,
    Of going into battle when the Metacritic crowd invade.

    There’s Conrad Zimmerman, a wild card and a hunk.
    When the video game movies gets down, he ready to get drunk.

    Samurai Reviewer Boglins, they’re so rad,
    they’ve got more credibility than any Peter Molyneux ever had.

    They’re stronger than moldy old spunk (Stronger than moldy old spunk)
    Stronger than a witch hunt (Stronger than a witch hunt)
    If you try to sue them, then you’re gonna get punked. (Don’t punk me)

    Samurai Reviewer Boglins.
    They’re fightin crime,
    All over the gaming space
    3-2-1, Reviewer Bolgins are on the run

    The big Executives are the villans, they’re lower than low.
    It’s a bit of a shame they have so much power and control.

    We’ve got our nasty Bad Konami and his nasty Nintendo fans.
    As soon as someone finds the Coca Cora, we might begin the show.

    Sit right back, pick up a seat and turn the sound up high,
    and if you want the full effect, insert a dildo and tremble at the thighs!

    Samurai Reviewer Boglins!

  • BAH!

    I just want to point out that calling season passes bad (rather than the way they’re used by publishers) is, itself, kind of stupid. That’s like saying video games are bad because publishers push pre-orders.

    A season pass does not disappear once all the content is out. It still hangs around, and will, eventually, go on sale. And considering most SP’s are priced to offer a small discount anyway, the savings can be quite impressive. Making content exclusive to the pass is also dumb, but that still falls under the “how publishers use them” point.

    Pre-order = Bad
    Saving Money = Good

    • Nuserame

      By the time all the DLC is out, the ‘season pass’ kinda stops being a season pass and is just a bundle of DLC offered on discount. That generally gets offered whether the game originally had a season pass or not.

      The things inherent to the concept of a season pass are: Planning DLC into the game, and selling it on pre-order.
      The first almost invariably seems to result in a diminished launch title, and the last will invariably make you feel that you bought half a game for 60$.
      The only good use for a season pass is to just… not use it really. Just offer the DLCs bundled in an ‘ultimate edition’ or whatnot.

      • BAH!

        Except that doesn’t work when you’ve already bought the game. So offering the DLC bundled separately is a significant help to consumer.

        And I don’t recall DLC getting bundles on console before season passes. Not saying it didn’t, but the advent of the SP made that shit way easier, as well as getting it on sale.

    • TheMagicLemur

      Except that season passes almost always don’t include all the DLC and you’re just pre-ordering DLC. So yes, in fact, season passes are stupid until all DLC is out already.

      • BAH!

        Thank you for repeating the exact thing I said.

    • CaitSeith

      Wrong comparison, It would apply if he had said “DLCs are bad because season passes”. He didn’t. Besides, with pre-orders you know the game is coming and even a date (although it could end up like the Last Guardian for PS3 where pre-orders were available since 5 years ago). With season passes, what exactly are you buying when you pay? You’re paying up front for promises, giving money on 100% blind trust.

      • BAH!

        If you buy the SP before all the content is out, yes. But that is a *completely* different topic, one which I VERY CLEARLY addressed.

    • darksteel6

      I don’t think season passes are inherently bad either, i’ve got no problem paying for them if it saves me money on DLC later, and there’s really no story DLC that I would consider outright bad so season passes are not really a risk for me, I don’t regret paying for season passes for games like Far Cry 4, Arkham Knight, Watch Dogs, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, etc.

    • EyeSkewb

      Wow. The publisher fully has you in their clutches eh? Do you work for them? ARE YOU A SHILL?

      All joking aside, what you’re referring to is perceived value, not true value. “This DLC would’ve been 60 dollars, but if I buy the season pass now it’s only 55! What a steal!”
      Except what you’re buying is a promise of good content, not necessarily actual good content. It’s a bad business choice in general to pay up front for a product that doesn’t exist. And this doesn’t even take into account the greedy publisher habit of locking away content that would, in golden years gone by, be included as part of the game like difficulty modes. That type of shit is just egregious greed. It’s no benefit to you for it to be included, which really makes me question why you would defend it, hence the shill “joke”. Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if you were a marketer trying to justify his job in order to sleep. I know it seems a baseless claim, but I need to let you know that’s the impression your comment leaves with anyone possessing basic consumer sensibilities.

      • darksteel6

        I’ve never really been dissapointed in any of the season passes i’ve bought, i’ve always felt as though i’ve got my moneys worth. Not all season pass DLC is content that’s already on the disc.

        • EyeSkewb

          I have. And for bioshock infinite no less which was one of my top two favorite games of last gen. And dlc isn’t necessarily bad at all, but waiting until the product exists allows you to gauge the quality of the product you’re buying by utilizing community reviews etc. Also what if it turns out the game is just shit? Would you consider 50 dollars to be worth the price of battlefront’s dlc package? Would any amount be worth it? Had they not tried to rush the game out to ride episode VII’s hype, would that content not be in the base game, as threadbare as that games included content turned out to be? What of the people who bought that at launch? There’s no recompense for them. It’s not worth throwing your money st hopes and dreams to save a maximum of like 10 dollars. It’s a practice that’s easily exploited and so is therefore shit because in this case slippery slopes are very real and we’ve seen their evidence.

          • darksteel6

            I never bought Battlefront as I completely lost any interest I had in that game when I heard it was not going to have a campaign(same with Rainbow Six Siege), but yeah that 50 dollar season pass was pretty damn terrible, but i’ve found that passes like that are usually the exception and not the rule.

      • BAH!

        I’m not saying a person should buy a season pass before all the content is out (or even before it goes on sale), I’m saying a season pass is not inherently bad because it’s used to push pre-orders. That’s literally all.

      • BAH!

        Also, if someone told me to hold off buying a season pass until it all its content was out and it was on sale, I would be SHOCKED to discover that person worked in marketing. Because that would be the absolutely worst marketer I’d ever heard of.

        So fuck you.

  • Tanneseph

    First time the purple dildo really made me laugh, and it was a doozy!

    Thanks for taking the time to point out something done this right (HZD, not the dildo ;p ;p). Gotta celebrate those victories, promote those good examples!

    Does anyone know if HZD is a timed exclusive? For the games I play, there aren’t enough console exclusives for me to justify buying the hardware. I basically have gone PC Master Race purely due to Steam sales, lol. So I’m realllllly hoping this goes over to my preferred platform, eventually.

    • BAH!

      It is almost definitely a permanent PS4 exclusive. It’s made by one of Sony’s in-house devs.

      Also, you know what other game did most everything right in terms of its publishing? Mad Max. And that was from Warner Brothers!

      • Tanneseph

        Dammit, I didn’t catch it was a Sony in-house. pwnd.

        • Lies That Bind

          Keep your eye on the PS now service though since they’ve announced ps4 games will be coming to the platform soon. So hopefully it ends up on there eventfully for PC gamers to enjoy.

      • darksteel6

        Yes as Total Biscuit pointed out in one of the past Co Optional podcasts this year, it’s interesting that HZD received praise from most critics in spite of it’s open-world cliches while Mad Max did not see the same level of critical acclaim, i’m a little mystified by that myself, I think both games are amazing(Mad Max definitely makes my top 5 of 2015)

    • darksteel6

      It’s not timed it’s permanent as none of Guerilla’s other games(the Killzone series) ever came out on other platforms, so sorry but Horizon is NEVER coming to Xbox or PC.

  • Nuserame

    Hmpf yeah, loads of great games, most of which you can’t have unless you have each and every console out there.

    Bleh. Exclusives. That’s one thing that just isn’t good for anyone.

    • TheMagicLemur

      Agreed. And Jim agrees too, as he’s said before. Holding games hostage is a really shitty tactic.

      • Hunter Zolomon

        “Holding games hostage is a really shitty tactic.” Except Sony isn’t holdng it hostage, Sony own and funded the game so no way would they want it on anything whats not a PS4. Is Nintendo now holding Zelda BOTW hostage because its not on PC or PS4? Jesus i never saw this level of moaning back when it was just Sega vs Nintendo exclusives. Exclusives sell consoles remember, hell exclusives were the only reason to own Wii U.

    • Nitrium

      Well the idea is that you buy the console to play the exclusive games. The more they make, the more “sense” that makes to the individual. So it IS GOOD for corporation involved to release plenty of top tier exclusive content for their platform. I won’t succumb to it, because buying a console for the exclusive is actively condoning the practice, which I don’t want to do. It’s not like you can play all of the games anyway. Every platform (well except Switch, but that’s new) has more than enough titles to scratch whatever gaming itch you might have.
      On PC of course you also have a decades old back catalogue of titles that can be bought for very little money (on GoG, for e.g.); some incredible games that everyone should have played.

    • Allan Weallans

      I don’t know. I mean, off the top of my head, if Bayonetta 2 wasn’t exclusive, it simply would never have happened. I haven’t played it. I don’t know if it’s good. But it’s good that it exists, therefore it’s good that Nintendo had a motivation to fund it, even if that motivation was platform-exclusivity.

      On the other side of the coin, Mass Effect was originally Xbox-exclusive, published by Microsoft, and we have EA to thank that it no longer is. Is what EA did to Mass Effect better or worse than platform-exclusivity? I’m not sure even I have a ready answer for that, and I liked it more than a lot of people.

      • Nuserame

        Hmmm, I guess for ailing IPs it can be a way to continue to exist. How use that is if most people can’t play it, I will leave in the middle.

        And there is also a pretty good set of games that would have easily gotten their funding with or without signing away their rights to publish on more than one platform.
        Bloodborne comes to mind. I get the feeling From Software signed a deal with Sony that allowed them to port the Souls series at the cost of producing an exclusive on new IP. Pure speculation but its the only reason I can think of besides ‘From Software hates money’.

        • darksteel6

          Street Fighter V is another one, Capcom could’ve easily funded that game without making it a Sony exclusive.

          • Gorantharon

            SFV’s sales are more due to being released without several crucial features.

            The Sony focus might have hurt a bit, but the horrible user impressions surely did more.

          • darksteel6

            True.

    • Landy Alexander

      You’re wrong there. You can play all the great new games without buying every console on the market. *cough* Xbone

      • Fyou

        I’ve yet to be able to fire up any Forza game on my PSPro. But, different strokes and all that.

        • Landy Alexander

          I’ve only really heard of Forza as an alternative to Gran Turismo, which is a game I really care about at all.

    • George

      I have a love/hate relationship with the idea.

      On one hand exclusive may be the way of the future since porting games for multiple systems is from what understand more expensive then just designing for one platform. So for budget sake…it may just be an inevitable future….

      Another point is that exclusives do allow a company to create a more focused experience. The reason I jumped from the PS3 to Wii-U this generation despite it having less games was because Nintendo was offering an experience that I was more interested in.

      BUT I think that is best case scenario…

      Where I think exclusives are bad is when Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo actively attempt in some way to prevent a title from being released on another platform. I think Jim made an old video on this topic. It was a while ago though.

  • Peter Quint

    I’m a fan of yours, Jim, big fan, but I disagree with a lot of what goes under the “social justice” banner.

    I dislike the tribalism, the limits on human sympathy that identity politics as assumes (“as a white man you can NEVER BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND…”), the way it is used as a tool of denunciation and through that a dishonest means to power, it’s distaste for male sexuality.

    Still, I don’t freak out about it. There are calm people who have points they consider valid to make against how the social justice movement appears in this internet age.

    I wonder if there’s any place for someone like me in your categories of people that isn’t the paranoid, inadequate, weak-minded fools you always say people who disagree with social justice stuff are.

    Anyway, good episode. On a personal level you seem kind of extra angry or exasperated this week. Tough time with the DDOS stuff, I guess.

    • Nuserame

      Le Gasp! A healthy middle ground, thoughtful nuance and consideration for both sides of the argument?

      You can’t do that on the internet!

    • Benj

      So you hate the nutcases and strawmen/ strawladies/ strawgenderfluids etc but still think there are well-meaning and insightful people who argue for opinions that are often considered to be social justice.

      I don’t get why people think this is an unusual position to be in. Isn’t this basically everyone?

      • Nobody’s Fanboy

        This is exactly what I mean whenever I talk about ‘controlling the conversation’. The nutcases are so loud and so visible that everyone else is convinced they’re the ones in the minority…doubly so once you figure in that the nutcases are quick to straight-on attack anyone that isn’t as nuts as they are, rather than welcoming someone who isn’t their “enemy”.

        It’s also why I’m loath to use the term ‘SJW’ outside the specific context of the nutcases using social causes to “justify” their specific brand of hatred and abuse…without the W, without being a toxic, hateful little troll, it’s simply being in a comfortable enough place in life to be mindful of those getting a raw deal.

        • Benj

          I think there are people on both sides who resent that these kinds of questions (like “is this ok?”; “is this a problem?”; “Am I/others making unfair assumptions”) are still being asked.

          This is either because they think any level of inequality or conflict is insufferable and rage-inducing or because they think everything is basically ok as it is and people are making mountains out of mole hills.

          Debates like this will never end (and should never end) and I’m ok with this because I actually quite enjoy these discussions. Plus I feel no obligation to care when people of any viewpoint are just acting like inflexible, self-righteous hatemongerers.

        • Peter Quint

          The “warrior” in SJW is a dig at the bellicose people who don’t seem to offer any of the positives that equality might bring, they’re not trying to show you a dream of something better, but rather just want the power of denunciation, the power to shut you down by accusations and insults.

          One of the things I liked about this Jimquisition was Jim taking the time to show the positives that can arise from having a greater variety of games.

          • darksteel6

            I think SJW is a stupid fucking term that should not be used if you want people to take you seriously.

    • Wolfie

      Here’s the problem I have with what you say. Perhaps I’m mistaken, but it comes across that you’re saying “social justice” is something inherently bad, same thing with “identity politics.” And this is just also a more general statement as I’ve seen these arguments a lot.

      But people don’t really know what that means anymore. It’s a lot like “feminism,” it’s turned from something with meaning to a fearful buzzword that only means “the other.”

      Take, for example, “as a white man, you can never begin to understand.” It’s not saying you can’t be sympathetic. it’s that you don’t get how invasive some of these problems can be. I mean, you understand it conceptually, but not from experience, and that’s the difference.

      I can understand the concept of rape, and I can understand the concept of what people who are victims of rape go through, but I don’t understand it from an experiential front without being raped myself.

      And social justice is realizing that just because it’s something you may not experience does not mean it does not exist and isn’t a huge problem for a different group in our society.

      Like I said, it’s this idea that all feminism is, is women should be treated special, nobody can criticize a female (insert career), or it’s about frivolous gossip “from a woman’s view,” or some such nonsense. No, that’s not what it’s supposed to be about.

      I’ll give you that there is some problems with the idea of “tribalism,” but that’s been true of, well, anything even remotely controversial, especially if it’s political. Just look, for example, at the Jefferson and Alexander Democrats, if I’m remembering my history right.

      • TheMagicLemur

        Tribalism inevitably destroys all human cultures.

        Which is why I’m such a big booster of transhumanism; only way for humanity to survive is to stop being human.

        • Peter Quint

          Like it. In the explanations I come up with in my head (so untested, probably bullshit) I feel the genetic hertitage of tribes and social heirarchies, the way you see other social animals act, seem to hold us back as well as allow cooperation.

          The group dynamics humans have are often, in my experience, totally fucked. The obsession with power. The need of individuals and groups to dominate others, impose their will, is what drives so much of how the world works. If you look at any action movie it’s normally a journey from having no power and being dominated to having power and dominating those who dominated you before.

          Yes, we should all become the Borg, that’s the laughable conclusion I’ve come up with. Assimilate everyone under just one common will.

          I don’t know. They’re tough questions, but I see a lot of the social justice stuff as people with quite cynical motives, simply to impose their will on one of the other tribes, disguised as the more noble quest for equality.

      • Benj

        I think there’s really just one problem with millions of different variations. People come up with an excuse for not caring about someone else’s welfare and use this as a moral justification to satisfy their natural human bloodlust.

        Whether that’s because they’re gay, Jewish, Black, Muslim, female, male, elderly, fat, Trans, rich, poor, disabled, mentally ill, a Trump supporter, a homophobe, a racist, a convicted felon, a drug addict or a child abuser.

        All of these people have feelings that matter even if some of them have made bad decisions or caused harm to others but all of them should have fundamental human rights.

        If you’re being horrible to someone then don’t kid yourself into thinking you’re doing good. You’re doing it because it’s fun to act like a total cunt.

        • Wolfie

          Mmhm, and I’ll be honest. I know how I act. Sometimes, I do like acting like a total cunt. There are just some fucking people where I feel better acting that way towards them. *coughgamergatecough* However, I know a few things, too. One, I’m not a role model, and I’m not one for outreach to convince people to change their mind. I am not that person.

          Two, not all of them are terrible people. This whole Jontron thing? I don’t think he’s racist, just another sad case of someone who takes Fox News too seriously.

          And three, I would never say they don’t deserve to not speak, or advocate harm against them. I mean, I may say shit in private to that effect, but it’s nothing that I seriously mean. It’s just getting worked up and talking smack.

          • Benj

            I hope I didn’t give the impression I was talking about you specifically, I was talking in general terms about the attitude I try to adopt.

            I’m generally quite good at staying detached with things like this but it’s something that I’ve learned to do over quite a long time scale (plus I’ve actually had formal training in it as part of the voluntary work I do)

            You can’t change a lot of people’s minds and in those cases I think it’s better say nothing at all… unless you can think of something funny.

            I think the fact that you’re so ready to apologise, even when you don’t need to, means that you’re basically doing fine.

          • Wolfie

            Oh yeah, I know, I just wanted to say it to put it out there. Thank you though.

          • darksteel6

            I don’t know if Jon is racist or not, but I do know that some Iranians like him consider themselves superior to all other races.

          • ccameron sprague

            Your tone deafness is hilarious

          • darksteel6

            your incredible stupidity is hilarious, it’s true, look it up fuckhead.

          • Rachel McVeigh

            At a certain stage though, what is the difference between ‘not being a racist but saying racist things’ and ‘being a racist’

            Either way more people have been exposed to racist sentiment that they might believe and use to harm others.

            We can only judge a person by what they say and their actions.

            I get that it is hard to hear someone who you might like or respect say somthing terrible but you can’t help them by making excuses.

          • Wolfie

            I think it’s when they say things that are not… how to put it. Mainstream, I guess? Like, from what I’ve heard, he seems to basically fall into using mainstream talking points that you hear among the right-wing. The kind of stuff you’ll hear among their more prominent media.

            I think it’s when they say things that are not reflective of that do you then have to suspect they’re actually racist, because it has to come from somewhere, and if it’s not from widely-consumed media, then… yeah.

            That’s why I don’t think he may necessarily be racist at heart. Of course, I could just be blowing smoke out my ass, so yeah.

          • Rachel McVeigh

            That might be true, I mean, I get that many of his ideas are the same as spouted by racist & bigoted news organizations BUT it ultimately doesn’t matter if he considers himself a racist or if he even believes what he said, someone who watches his videos will believe it and it will affect their outlook on minorities and the poor.

            I think at a certain point it’s splitting hairs to say that someone is not a racist but says racist things. If a person holds racist or bigoted views, then they are a racist or a bigot even if they wouldn’t consider themselves one. Friends of someone like that should help them come around not make excuses.

            It’s not like harbouring racist or bigoted views is unique, most people have some opinion, thoughts or even knee jerk reactions driven by racism or bigotry. The best thing to do is to recognise that within yourself and work past it.

      • CaitSeith

        I was thinking about that this afternoon. Thinking about how a vocal minority use “privileged white male” to poison the well and end the chance of dialogue in similar way than the other side misuses their own terminology to shut down the conversation (the “I am right because you are X”), and wondering what have been its actual effects.

        • darksteel6

          it’s not poisoning the well though, it’s just true.

          • Peter Quint

            I’ve read your replies and you seem very much to be a simple “I am right, you are wrong” person.

            It’s been a good discussion this but dogmatic people are the enemy of free thought, and I’m afraid you are being very dogmatic.

          • darksteel6

            You’re the only person I see being “dogmatic” here.

          • ccameron sprague

            Then you’re being intentionally ignorant or you’re so blinded by your bias you are literally incapable of not seeing things from your point of view.

          • darksteel6

            I’m not ignorant, if anyone is and has “bias” it’s you, you dumb cocksucker, your incapable of seeing how wrong you are.

          • InfamousDS

            Before they attempted to change their identity, it was much worse. Their old username was downright offensive in their stubbornness at times.

          • CaitSeith

            Depends on the context. Even truths can be weaponized.

    • TheMagicLemur

      I mean, as a white man you CAN’T understand what minorities go through. You can sympathize; you can say “that’s not ok”, but you can’t understand it because the insidious part of white & male privilege is that they’re both something of a passive buff.

      I’ve talked to black people with perfect driving records who are terrified of driving in my podunk town because the cops follow them and pull them over frequently.

      I’ve talked to Arabs (and a sizeable portion of Indian and Pakistani) immigrants who are scared that someone’s going to come where they work and just shoot them because of the hostility they get every day.

      Many women live with at least the low-level threat of rape at all times.

      And neither you nor I could possibly understand the way they feel because of the constant scrutiny of a system designed from the ground up BY white males FOR white males.

      That doesn’t make you a bad person. A lot of the push back against “social justice” is people mistakenly assuming that this is somehow guilting them. You don’t have to feel guilty or bad for having white male privilege. You didn’t choose to have it. But you can choose what to do with it, and complaining because others want a place at the table is not the best use of it.

      • Wolfie

        To be honest, I’m actually kind of relieved that my fiancee is Indonesian. Because you don’t hear about people shooting up Chinese people.

        And it’s fucking sad that I have to say that, and yet still be concerned about it at the same time, because you just never know.

      • Peter Quint

        Here’s one argument, not sure if it holds but I’m interested to see where it goes.

        If you can never understand all these other tribes of people who differ from you in sex, gender, class, race, then how is great fiction possible?

        Are all the insights of great authors, men and women, into the other sex just bullshit. Shakespeare and George Elliot, hopelessly trapped in their prison of understanding, writing nonsense about female and male characters whose sex doesn’t match their own?

        • Wolfie

          In a way, yeah, they are bullshitting, but not in the way you’re implying. Again, it’s a matter of understanding the concept.

          To use the rape example again, I don’t know what it’s like to go through something like that, but I can -imagine- it thanks to relating previous experiences I had to fill in the gaps as well as trying to understand what they go through.

          It’s not that you cannot sympathize, or that you cannot understand, at all, it’s that you don’t have the experience of it. You can relate through similar feelings that they describe, but relating isn’t experiencing.

          It’s not that we, as men, cannot write female characters, and hell, for all I know, we could potentially write them fairly well, but it isn’t because we’ve experienced being a woman, it’s because we try to fill in what we don’t understand and hope the projection of the female character is strong enough to feel like she is a female character.

          • Peter Quint

            But that’s what every human does to understand every other human. You can never really know what it’s like to be anyone else, regardless of the tribe of race, gender, etc.

            I don’t think that every male character written by a female author is false or ridiculous. Women can see into the souls of men and vice versa by using imagination and the fundamental understanding of what it is like simply to be a human.

            Identity politics denies what is possible for people. It limits humans in a way that doesn’t ring true with what I know and have read in great books.

          • Wolfie

            Yes, but again, you haven’t actually experienced any of it. Let me put it this way: how many times have you been pulled over by cops when you did nothing wrong? How many members of your family have been threatened, or have been, deported? How many times have you been called a terrorist?

            See, I think the danger here is we -think- we know, when we try to invalidate the idea of identity politics. However, we just don’t. It’s not that it’s limiting because we’re people, that’s not the point of it. It’s that you don’t have to experience the same things as they do, or at least as frequently.

            I mean, you say so yourself, “you can never really know hat it’s like to be anyone else,” and the idea of identity politics is “yes, that’s true.” However, certain things happen to certain communities on a regular basis, which is why it’s a problem. Blacks have a problem with poverty and police actions taken against them. Muslims have a problem with associations to jihadist. White people don’t.

          • OctopussGrift

            I think what people actually mean in most cases when they say that one group can’t understand another is that other people don’t have the right to define your experiences. If I tell you that you didn’t experience something you experienced I would be wrong because you experienced it.

            Women sometimes are told by people who claim to understand them that their experience of feeling objectified or uncomfortable is wrong. “He wasn’t being objectifying you by catcalling you should feel flattered by his interest” I have heard people say this to women who were catcalled and felt objectified and threatened. Maybe they are misinterpreting the intent of the person yelling at them, but when someone expresses that they interpreted an action in a specific way the proper response is to say “that was not my intention” not “you’re wrong.”

            Feminist women generally accept that men can feel empathy toward women and can understand them. I am a man and feminists have told me that they feel like I empathized with the sexism they experienced. They just don’t want men telling them how to feel when they experience things.

      • InfamousDS

        Aziz Ansari did a show (a series, not a special) on Netflix that perfectly encapsulated the male/female dichotomy. This retelling may be completely wrong.

        He and Eric Wareheim are at a club with a female friend whose name escapes me, and they all leave. As the woman leaves a man buys her a drink, and flirts uncomfortably. (It then does quick cuts of their walks home.)
        Aziz steps in some gum and messes up his shoes, he complains.
        The woman hears something behind her and starts to walk faster.
        Aziz spills a drink on his shirt or something, starts going on about how its the worst night ever.
        Her walk gets even faster and the club guy appears and starts to make insinuations, so she blows him off and keeps going.
        Aziz gets home, and Eric won’t hang out with him since he has stuff to do. Aziz sighs and goes to bed.
        The lady is almost sprinting to escape the guy who is clearly stalking her. She manages to beat him to her door and get in before he catches up, and locks herself in. The man begins beating on the door, calling her a tease and a whore and threatening to break it down.

        The next day when Aziz complains about his night after the bar, the woman goes that he doesn’t know the half of it and no matter what he had gotten off easy. Then some (actual) feminism talk started happening.

        • Lies That Bind

          Master of none?

          • InfamousDS

            Yes, probably. A good comedy show that wasn’t up its own ass about how funny it was.

      • Nuserame

        I find the entire attitude of reducing individuals to race/gender to be a pointless affair, only suited for fuelling division and hate.

        A person has a whole lot more to them then their colour and the content of their pants. They can be from a poor and/or dysfunctional family, from a poor general area. They can be ugly, prone to obesity, or just posses no talent for social skills.

        The list of things that can disadvantage someone is pretty damn long. Shouting to someone on the internet that ‘you are white and male so you can’t know…’ while they can have any number of crippling disadvantages is their lives is bound to land poorly.
        Imagine you are born to a poor family with a drunk dad in Belfast. Shit jobs, shitty city, shitty education and no prospects for anything else. Now imagine getting told you are oh so privileged in a blog post by a female lawyer, because she gets paid 10% less than her male colleague.

        Perhaps that mental exercise can help explain some posts you see.

        • George

          I agree with and would go further. I think what you are describing is the the major downfall of Intersectionality as an academic concept.

          To stick with your example: the female lawyer from an intersectional perspective is always disadvantaged due to her gender. The problem with that is that in terms of real world day to day life she isn’t in any real way disadvantaged. Where as the poor dude from Belfast is always advantaged due to his whiteness, even though in real world terms he isn’t.

          This kind of intersectional privilege thought…in my view it’s a bane on activism and does nothing isolate people.

          • Anton

            There’s a tough balancing act between acknowledging the statistical “facts of life” (in that, some demographics have an advantage over others), and realizing that every person and every person’s context in life is different. Unfortunately, that balanced view is hard to understand and needs to be re-interpreted per every individual case, while most people – especially on the polar extreme opposites of the argument – would rather just jump to conclusions and attack.

          • George

            In general it kind of goes along with the trend of increased partisanship that we are seeing all over the world which is very concerning in and of itself.

            But, I would actually argue intersectional thought (including the concept of “privilege”) by the nature of the way the argument is constructed is incapable of allowing the analysis that you suggest.

            In an ironic sort of way it is too inflexable and reduces us all to our, race or our sexual orientation or our genitals or some kind of combination of the above and very worryingly excludes virtually any focus on individual personal accountability in doing so.

            But that’s just my 2 cents.

          • Anton

            Fair point, though I would argue that terms like privilege have some use; they can be used to describe population trends (white men make more than black women), and to explain a fairly large amount of individual incidents (like Brock Turner getting away with proven rape, because the piece of shit is a rich white boy). The problem is, in my mind, that “privilege” mindset gets applied to EVERY case, even when it does not belong. Once that happens, it becomes a tool to try and deprive the “privileged” of their voices by default, regardless of what they have to say.

            Ironically, of course, this effect achieves the opposite of its intent, because all it does is enrage the privileged and make them angry and more inclined to fight the non-privileged, whereas otherwise they might have been reasonable or neutral at worst.

          • George

            That is also a very good point. The “over application” of the privilege argument is an interesting idea.
            I would concede that in terms group trends applying terms like privilege would have some use.

            But…I would say that using privilege to any individual case would be misguided. As you said it has an opposite effect in that it enrages the “privileged” many of whom in terms of real world measures are not “privileged” and take exception to being called as such.

            As for the Brock Turner case, I found that the conversation became more about “the evidence of white privilege” rather than “Is there something wrong with American Law?” or “Is the judge wrong?” or “was there enough evidence in the first place?” For me that is one of the major problems I have with intersectionality it’s trying to apply a macro view on the individual and a lot other more pertinent analysis gets lost.

          • Anton

            Well, here’s the thing, I actually don’t see the Brock Turner trial as a case of applying a macro view to an individual. In my mind, the legal situation that Brock found himself in weighed very heavily against him; so much so, that (to me) it’s not unreasonable to say that he got off with a slap on the wrist only because he is rich and white. I can honestly promise that I do not believe in the slightest that a less well-off man, or a man of black/hispanic origins, would have gotten nearly as much leniency in this particular situation.

            The “applying macro view” argument would have been more applicable if Brock Turner had a solid alibi, defended himself on his own merits, and then would have been accused of white privilege anyway.

            Ultimately, it’s a hell of a grey area, and for all my arguments I can’t claim I’m right here.

          • darksteel6

            there was more then enough evidence, the problem is some judges view rape cases as being the fault of the women, we saw that happen with Steubenville.

          • darksteel6

            privileged assholes like Turner will be enraged no matter what, might as well tell the truth.

          • Nuserame

            Good point on the overuse of “privilege”, though I would wager that overall Brock Turner has plenty of privilege. Only more for being rich than for being white.

            The most glaring cases are mostly the one where all the accuser of ‘privilege’ looks at is race and gender, whereas those are only two in a whole myriad of factors that determine whether or not you get a head start in life.

            Those cases are what people mean when they say that the whole ‘SJW trend’ reeks of tribalism and division.

          • Wolfie

            Though I think the “increased partisanship” actually has a lot to do with American politics. Love it or hate it, let’s be honest – America is incredibly influential, and what it does shapes the world.

            And in the US, everything has moved right-ward, even the Democrat party. It went from the party of FDR to the party of Bill Clilnton. It went from a leftist party to a centrist neoliberal party. And in doing so, it has begun to lose ground as well as sacrificing leftist values.

            I mean, do you think the failure of the financial industry would have been allowed to happen under a government of stricter regulations? I don’t think so. And that was a major contributor to this sudden surge of right-wing politics, as it is a known phenomena that economic strife can lead to those right-wing mindsets such as being anti-immigrant, which is one of the main pillars of this current surge, be it immigrants are stealing jobs or immigrants are criminals and terrorists.

            So basically, we have a “left-wing” party that isn’t just not left-wing, but also incredibly weak, and a strong right-wing party that has seen major success, but those of us who are actual leftists have… nothing. So we fight even harder and with greater hostility, partly out of bitterness, partly out of reaction, etc.

            I will not deny that I am incredibly partisan, that I am a very polarized person. But as bad as you may see it, I don’t see it that way. I see it as a necessity, because “the middle ground” isn’t that. It’s not a middle-ground, it’s still in the court of the right-wing.

          • George

            Move to Canada! We have 3 main parties. A left wing, A right wing, and (what claims to be) a centre wing.
            And you never have to worry about electing a president since we have a monarchy/ Viceroy nor worry about the executive using it’s power…unless there is some kind of crisis… but that’s only happened 2 times in Canadian history.

            But on a more serious note, I think a lot of the hyper partizan ship is from the average person thinking, quite rightly, that they have impact on their respective democracy. Weather it’s the EU parliament, or The American Congress or My House of Commons.

          • Wolfie

            Actually, I think it’s quite the opposite in the States! It’s the idea that we don’t have any impact at all!

            You look at our polling numbers… literally, the number of people who vote, I mean, and they’re atrocious. The number that’s been thrown around for the 2016 Presidential was 55% of eligible voters. Barely more than half the country. And I’m willing to bet that if you asked those who didn’t, you’d see a lot of them being like “my vote doesn’t matter,” or “politics doesn’t matter, it’s all the same,” or something like that.

            That we’re so polarized here in the States because our system has a n electorate system, that it’s designed to support only two major parties, and that those parties have the power to redraw districts, which in turn has a major effect on the electorate system.

            And that’s a Presidential election. Then you have your primaries beforehand, which nobody fucking cares about except political junkies and the diehards (you could say I fall under both), and then there’s the mid-term elections when various Congressional seats open up as well as a lot of local stuff.

            But if people don’t turn out, which they don’t, those who do are, again, the junkies and the diehards, so the Republicans go further to the right, and the Democrats… well, they lose. A lot.

          • darksteel6

            Does not seem like the democrats lose any more then the repubs, it’s been a balancing act for several decades.

            Hell that homophobic asshole Pat McCrory lost the election and that racist piece of shit Joe Arpaio is finally gone from Maricopa County in Arizona.

          • Wolfie

            They’ve won some races, sure, but they’re at a net loss overall. They’ve been losing Congressional seats since Bill Clinton and their control of governorships has been especially dramatic.

          • darksteel6

            But the republicans were at a net loss in 2008, so I predict that things will swing back to the left in a few years.

            Jon Ossof actually has a good chance of winning.

          • Wolfie

            But Republicans have held majority control of the House since then. And even when the Democrats had their so-called “super-majority,” they, quite frankly, dropped the ball with health care reform by first starting off lowballing it, then didn’t fight hard enough favoring never-ending “compromises” that watered it down further, then even when they decided to go it alone, they struggled to get the votes because of Blue Dog Democrats.

          • darksteel6

            They also held the majority decades ago for a long time, point is these things go back and forth.

          • darksteel6

            I disagree there, I don’t think the left has sacrificed any of it’s leftist values(Except for a select few republicans-in-democrats clothing)

            I wouldn’t say the left is “incredibly weak” at all, the tide is turning pretty sharply against the right now that it’s become apparent that Trump is a puppet of Russia(which the FBI is actively investigating right now)

          • Wolfie

            Except the Democrats have become even more unfavorable ever since they starting talking almost exclusively about Russia. Cause people don’t care about Russia, they want economic policy. They want jobs. And the Democrat’s response has been silence, and before then, Clinton’s response was TPP.

            I don’t much like bringing a site like Huffington Post into it, but… well, I mean, if even they’re showing it, that’s pretty bad.
            http://tinyurl (dot) com/kypeccr

          • darksteel6

            I’ve seen no evidence of them becoming unfavortable, plenty of people DO care about Russia, especially now that it’s revealed that they did have involvement in Trump’s campaign.

            No the democrats have not been silent on jobs, that’s just plain false.

          • darksteel6

            If anything they’ve been viewed more favorably, not less, especially that they’ve been proven right by the FBI(Trump sure as hell ain’t bringing any jobs back) and i’m sure you’ve seen the viral photo of that one guy who said he regretted voting for Trump.

          • Chris Schwartz-Brown

            Except for the fact that the party spent the last eight years cozying up to wall street and abandoning any attempts to combat income inequality and poverty. That’s part, albeit not all, of the reason that state by state democrats have seen their control of state and local government dismantled while they ride high on Obama. And why they convinced themselves the second least likable candidate in recent memory who was far too close to wall street and not nearly charismatic enough to make up for it had a chance.

            I held my nose and voted for her, but it was no surprise she lost and democrats failed to make any gains in Congress or in the states. This is the weakest the left has been in a generation or more and just sitting around laughing at John Oliver or Samantha Bee while republicans further gerrymander the Congress and dismantle voting access because we’re sure Trump is going to implode and be impeached by his own party any day now is a fool’s errand that will just hasten this country’s fall to totalitarianism and corporate cronyism.

          • darksteel6

            They did not completely abandon all attempts, I would also strongly disagree on Clinton, I personally did not find her the least bit unlikable, I voted for her and I do not regret it one bit.

            She only lost because of Russian hackers(and racist voter ID laws) if you ask me(don’t be surprised if the FBI’s current investigation provides concrete evidence of just that).

            I would personally not say it’s the weakest they’ve been, Trump is imploding right now as he’s currently under investigation, he’s like Nixon on steroids at this point, and his new health care plan has been derided by both the left and the right, so it has no real chance of passing.

            It’s mostly not a fool’s errand by a longshot, it took time for Nixon to get forced out, but it did happen, so I think some people are worrying a bit too much, we’re a long way off from totalitarianism.

          • Chris Schwartz-Brown

            And what happens then? Mike Pence is president, still with majorities in both houses, with a friendly supreme court and overwhelming majorities in state legislatures and governor’s mansions to enact his agenda. Trump being weak doesn’t mean democrats are strong by any means. The fact that after he was elected and already ‘imoloding’ democrats still managed to fall to show up for Senate run offs in Louisiana and for early primaries for local elections in LA shows that the main problem still exists. Leftists are great at angrily yelling on the internet and at sharing videos on YouTube, less so at actually voting.

            When was the last time the average under thirty five Democrat showed up to vote in an off year Congressional race? Or in odd year local and state races? In a primary for anything but president. That’s our problem, because the people we’re fighting do show up, and they get to dictate terms for everything but the presidency as a result.

            And Russian hackers didn’t walk into voting booths in Pennsylvania and Ohio counties Obama had previously won and pull the levers. They weren’t standing next to voters who pulled the lever for a Democrat for governor but not for president in North Carolina with guns to their heads. Refusing to acknowledge the mistakes the party made (thank God Wasserman-Schultz is gone at least) or that Hillary was a bad candidate is like sticking our heads in the sand and pretending nothing is wrong and everything will be magically fixed soon. A Republican Congress won’t impeach Trump. Democrats won’t turn out in two years to change that unless they get their act together.

            And then the 2020 census will let republicans redraw district lines even more so it won’t matter what milquetoast, centrist, pro wall street technocrat manages to edge out a few more votes around Cleveland and Pittsburgh to turn the electoral college the other way because the party will still be so weak and so outgunned and out spent in every other race that they won’t be able to govern. Unless the democrats start building a new coalition of working and lower class voters across racial and geographic lines they are destined to keep having to drift to the center while letting the far right gain more and more ground and dismantle more and more of the social safety net until we’re back in the gilded age with all wealth controlled by a handful of wealthy monopolists while the rest of us are fucked harder than a Konami employee who has a non pachinko related game idea.

          • darksteel6

            It’s surprisingly easy to hack voting machines though:http://www(DOT)politico(DOT)com/magazine/story/2016/08/2016-elections-russia-hack-how-to-hack-an-election-in-seven-minutes-214144

            Being all doom and gloom won’t do anything.

            I think democrats are plenty strong, you don’t know for sure that they are destined to drift towards the center, there’s no real way to prove that.

            You saw Hilary was a bad candidate like that’s an indisputable fact, which it absolutely is not just because you personally do not like her, plenty of people did like her

            Democrats are most certainly not sticking their heads in the sand and pretending nothing is wrong, but i’m not so sure Trump would not have won even if there was another candidate up against him(i’m not convinced Bernie would’ve won as much as some people seem to believe)

            Leftists most definitely do show up to vote, they certainly do in my state at any rate, and that includes mid-term elections.

            We don’t know for sure that the census will do anything like that, i’m not going to automatically assume the worst will happen, as that’s not at all productive and won’t actually get anything done.

          • Chris Schwartz-Brown

            I say she was bad because her favorable rating was historically low, only barely higher than Trump’s. And she was a bad candidate because she lost, she under performed in States that she didn’t visit often enough and didn’t invest enough in. She ran a bad campaign, and no amount of Russian email hacking made her decide to spend more time in southern states she was almost always going to lose than in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan where less than a hundred thousand more votes turned out in each state would have won her the election. That may be hind sight, but it’s foolish to pretend she and her campaign didn’t make mistakes that can be learned from.

            I say that young, liberal voters don’t show up in off years because decades of voting data back that up. Off year elections have a fraction of the turn out, and that turn out is much, much older and whiter on average than presidential years.

            I say they are sticking their heads in the sand because they literally just had a chance to turn out in Louisiana to vote in the Senate run off but didn’t. If it’s not a big, fun protest liberals are much worse at showing up.

            You can not believe my predictions, but turn out data is widely available. And no one is claiming that voting machines were hacked in any serious circles. We can’t blame our losses entirely on Russians or we won’t learn our lessons and do better. That’s like losing in a game and spending all your time whining about cheating and broken controls and unfair rules rather than getting better at the game. It makes democrats into the darksydephil of political parties, and no one should want to be that.

          • darksteel6

            I do not think she ran a bad campaign.

            With Trump being investigated for basically what amounts to treason, i’m not ruling anything out at this point.

            Russia may not entirely be to blame, but pretending they played no part at all is foolish in itself.

            You really shouldn’t generalize liberals like that.

          • Chris Schwartz-Brown

            She ran a losing campaign, clearly she made some mistakes. She ran a worse campaign than Obama, she got a lower share of the vote overall and underperformed him in a lot of groups. Whatever else you believe, that’s a fact, either she was less likable or popular than him or she did a worse job selling herself. The party made a lot of mistakes as well, as I said I’m immensely glad that we have a new chair and can hopefully start to rebuild. But if the party simply declares ‘we did nothing wrong, everything is the Russians’ they won’t fix anything.

            It is like the Republicans who convinced themselves they didn’t need to change anything after they lost in 2012, they didn’t read the way their base was moving and did nothing to predict or prevent Trump from coming in and winning that primary against people who were spending far more than him and who were far better supported in the party. His campaign was disgusting and hateful, but it also clearly had an audience. Democrats face the choice now of realizing that they need a new message and new voices (who do they even have right now other than Bernie who is remotely popular and who could conceivably be a nominee in four years?) or they’re going to look like Jeb Bush standing up their asking people to applaud them as fucking Mark Zuckerberg or Mark Cuban or someone like that comes into the next primary and turns the party towards that kind of populism and cult of personality like Trump has done to the Republicans.

          • darksteel6

            But she won the popular vote, it’s a shame that she only lost because we’re still stuck with the woefully outdated electoral college(Which was originally formed because of slavery).

            They have not lost every election though and clearly they’re not all letting republicans rip the country apart, if that was true then Andy Pudzer would be in the cabinet now.

            I don’t see turnout being a problem in the future, if anything good comes out of this election, it’s that it seems to have really woken people up.

            There are some truly bad democrats like Steven Lynch, who is basically a republican in democrats clothing, hopefully Brianna Wu successfully beats him next year.

          • Chris Schwartz-Brown

            It’s fine to be optimistic and hope for change, but it’s better to actually go out and do something about it. But don’t try to deny that this has been the party’s problem for ten years now. They got complacent, especially under Obama. The Republicans have pulled a lot of dirty tricks with voter ID laws and gerrymandering, yes. But we’ve let them, we haven’t done anything to fight back. And winning the popular vote isn’t enough. We need to make progress in states that she lost in. And we need to be fighting at all levels, not just worrying about the presidency.

            I’m not saying it’s hopeless. We are at the point the Republicans were at in 2008. But they didn’t just sit back and hope for everything to get better. Whatever you feel about the Tea Party, they organized, they got people involved, they got people to show up. Not just for president, but for congressional elections, for state elections, for city council and school board elections. The result? All across the country, even in supposedly ‘blue’ states, those positions are held by Republicans who ten years ago would have been considered ‘extreme’ by their party. The left’s only hope is to use those kinds of tactics and that kind of mobilization to force the Democratic party to change. You want a better Democratic candidate at some level? Then you need to be involved before the primaries, not just waiting to get involved after the nominations. That’s the point I’m trying to make. Whatever happens with Trump, even if he gets so toxic his party ousts him for Pence, we need to be getting ready for the next fight, and the fight after that. Because even if tomorrow the election magically got overturned and Hillary was sworn in the Democratic party and the left in this country is in a terrible state with congress, the courts, and state legislatures even in supposedly liberal states all stacked against us. No President can make meaningful changes with that kind of opposition. And we definitely can’t make the kinds of structural changes like ending the Electoral College or redoing voting rights without significant pick ups at every level, Constitutional amendments require us to control states too after all.

            That, or accept that we are descending into a dystopian nightmare and that we need to start coming up with cool names and stockpiling football pads and metal spikes for our Mad Max style gangs. Either way we need to be making preparations.

          • darksteel6

            We’ve actually done quite a bit to fight back, saying we’ve done nothing is quite inaccurate.

            We’re a long way off from a dystopian nightmare, giving into despair is exactly what Mango Mussolini(thanks to Linkara for coming up with that name) wants so that people don’t try and stop him, well I refuse to do nothing but complain.

            I’ve plenty involved for years, being a member of Daily Kos will do that to you, there’s no way I can’t stay engaged with reading their stories and articles every day.

          • Chris Schwartz-Brown

            People are doing things now, they weren’t before. That’s why I say people on the left got complacent. And again, they didn’t turn out to vote the first two chances they got after the election was over. Will they in the future? If you chose to be optimistic about that that’s fine, I don’t share that optimism. I think that showing up to protests and reading articles online are one thing, actually getting involved and organizing and meeting in person and working towards goals that take a long time is another.

            Is it impossible? Not at all, my point is that we have to be doing more than sitting passively and just hoping things get better. We need to plan for the long haul, and we need to plan for things to get worse before they get better. That’s not called sitting around and complaining, it’s called being prepared.

          • darksteel6

            I’ve certainly not been sitting passively, i’ve been writing letters to politicians.

            Not everyone on the left got complacent, some did, but not all.

            Being all doom and gloom about everything is not what i’d call being prepared, it’s what i’d call being overly negative, it’s not going to solve anything and it’s certainly not productive.

          • Chris Schwartz-Brown

            It’s not productive to sit around hoping that Trump is going to be impeached by his own party either. Or blaming all of our losses on the Russians, the Russians haven’t rigged all those Congressional elections and state and local raises we botched and people didn’t show up to vote in.

            That’s not being ‘overly negative’, it’s being a realist and acknowledging the challenges ahead.

          • darksteel6

            not blaming all losses on them, but they definitely helped, so we can’t just pretend they had no impact at all, especially not in light of Flynn’s resignation and the current investigation.

            There’s more to being a realist then being negative about everything all the time.

          • Gaealiege

            That new chair is just as much of a corporatist as Clinton herself.

            Selecting Perez was the establishment firmly stating “We will do nothing to appeal to progressives.” I think they’re in for a surprise when progressives tell them to fuck themselves (a second time) in 2018.

          • Otherhand

            She only lost because of Russian hackers? Even if we accept that as the reason, the things they found were real and not invented.

            She was up against an unthinkably stupid candidate: a buffoon, who was shooting himself in the foot several times a day. I’m trying to think if there’s ever been a less qualified candidate, and it’s quite possible that there has not. She was among the most qualified candidates who has ever run, with a unique political experience, a stellar background in law, and extremely high intelligence.

            And yet she lost. That is a problem, and it’s a problem of her entire party. Nothing you can say about how some small tweak could have delivered her the presidency is meaningful in the face of the fact that the winner was Donald Trump.

            After misjudging the election, and now misjudging her serious the party’s problem is, maybe you shouldn’t be saying “Don’t worry, folks!” about totalitarianism? After all, the only world leader aside from Putin who has a good relationship with Trump is Rodrigo fucking Duterte, and Trump certainly has the will to produce totalitarianism. What happens if there’s one attack in the ballpark of 9/11 under Trump?

          • darksteel6

            She won the popular vote though by several million, this just exemplifies how outdated and unnecessary the electoral college, especially when you consider the real reason it was created-slavery.

            I’m not worried because people are fighting Trump tooth and nail and they’re not going to let it get that far.

          • ccameron sprague

            Mob rule is no better. Let’s face it most or at least a large percentage people are not educated enough to know what they’re voting for and when people like you talking about a wage gap that you don’t understand claim that the popular vote is the way to go I can’t help but be thankful that the ignorant are not given more power.

          • darksteel6

            Let’s face it your a complete fucking moron, there is a “wage gap”, it fucking exists, deal with you you sexist piece of fucking dogshit.

            Many voters are educated, you’re clearly not one of them, did you inhale paint fumes as a kid?

          • darksteel6

            But the gender pay gap is a real thing, so she is disadvantaged by default.

      • Gorantharon

        As a white North Amercian born and raised man, and even that is an iffy statement.

        The world isn’t just America.

    • darksteel6

      nothing at all wrong with social justice stuff, minorities need more representation in games, that’s just a fact.

      The people under the “social justice” banner are far better then the people on the right.

  • Malidictus

    Jim, something seems to be wrong with your gamma and colour contrast in
    the game footage – it looks AWFUL, and I don’t think the game is
    supposed to look like that. You have almost nothing for dynamic range,
    with either overbright colours trending to white or exceptionally dark
    colours blending together into brown. You also don’t have much of a key
    (i.e. pure black) in the footage, either, which makes a game you claim
    to be colourful instead look washed-out, dark and hard to see. What’s up
    with that?

    As to Horizon, Zero Dawn itself, I have no issues with its success, but I equally have not stake in it. Yeah, it bucks a lot of AAA trends, but it equally reinforces a lot of the ones I really hate. Console exclusivity, for instance, is a big one. I’m literally incapable of playing that game due to not owning (or wanting) a console. From a purely selfish “cool games I can play” perspective, the game’s success does nothing for me if it breeds more games I can’t play.

    But hey – great for the people who do actually get to play what amounts to Far Cry Primal if it were done well. I have no ill feelings towards that, but I equally have few warm feelings to offer in return for being told I should care for something I literally can’t run on my machine.

    • TheMagicLemur

      Frankly I think Far Cry Primal has a more compelling story.

      • darksteel6

        I thought Primal sucked major ass. It felt very much like an expansion stretched out into a full priced game.

      • Malidictus

        That I can’t play, having never played the game. This is a personal thing, but “picking flowers” is one of the things I avoid games over. I don’t have the patience for games with crafting and inventory management any more. The story of Horizon – from what I’ve seen of it online – seems a little too Ferngully for my liking, though. Again – I speak from not having played the game, so take that for what it’s worth.

        • Believe me when I say: it’s not. Not at all.

    • Well is it really practical or fair to expect a console maker to make a game using solely their resources and employees and then put it out on every other system?

      I get wanting to play games, but I’m also a believer in intellectual property rights.

  • TheMagicLemur

    “Jim is a shill for [X company] and wants to destroy [any company that’s not Konami because let’s face it Jim would beat Konami to death with a shovel if he could]”
    This is a statement espoused by idiots.

    For the record I think Horizon is only a bit above mediocre, 6.5-7 out of 10 in my estimation. Still happy to see it do well.

  • Nobody’s Fanboy

    Glad to hear it’s doing well! I’ve been intrigued by it since the E3 reveal a couple years ago.

  • MG_Salad

    No Mass Effect: Zoo Animal Edition review today? Oh wait, right, “wild card” and everything.

    Also that quote about marriage from that character is all the proof I needed that the game has some witty dialog, although that could just be funny because it’s out of context.

    • Anton

      I’ve already read John Walker’s evisceration of the game, Jim can take his time XD

      ….seriously though, I am so fucking sad about how it turned out.

      • darksteel6

        I think Walker was dead wrong, Andromeda looks amazing from what i’ve seen(there are walkthroughs on Youtube already).

      • galactix100

        Having played the trial I’d say it’ll probably be remembered like the original Mass Effect but reversed. ME was great at story and characters but had shite combat and from what I’ve played MEA has a kinda weak story (you don’tget to play much in the trial so I’m going off reviews) and the characters I’ve met haven’t grippe me but I love the combat, especially in the multiplayer where it can get kinda ridiculous.

    • If you exhaust NPC dialog in Horizon it can be hilarious. I’ve got footage of me going through the loooooong list of things a random guard says. It’s amazing they put so much in.

      • Gorantharon

        They really put in a ton of minor details and even if it’s not a new thing, I did like how the random chatter you just hear would include things like the change in Hunter’s Lodge leaderhip.

        Could have been stronger, but you at least got the feeling the wrold did get influenced a bit by your actions.

      • Stelios Markios

        Some guards are voiced by Doug Cockle, so they had to get the most out of him.

  • EyeSkewb

    I came for the fanbabies! If you’re looking for them as well, just look for the Skewb!

  • SilentPony

    I feel like you’ve kinda’ shot yourself in the foot a little bit Jim with bringing Bioshock Infinite into this. I mean you’re on about how not all games need to be grim men on the cover and sequels, just look at that sexist Bioshock Infinite!
    …but Bioshock Infinite sold 1.5million the first week, up to 3.7million the second and a total now of 11million.
    Unless Horizon Zero Dawn gets to 11 million total sales, that might not have been the best comparison to make. Just saying there are so many worse games to compare Horizon to, why bringing up a critically acclaimed and financially successful one to embody everything wrong with marketing and game design?

    • Anton

      I think his point is that games CAN sell well without having grimdark white dudes with guns on the cover, not that they necessarily WILL outsell every game with a grimdark white dude with a gun on the cover.

      • SilentPony

        Yeah that’s a totally fair point, and to Horizon’s credit its not being outsold 50%. Love it!
        But there are so many more worse spunkgargleweewee games to make an example of.
        Its kinda like saying ‘not all games need zombies and shotguns, just look at how Doom turned out!’

        • Anton

          Well, I don’t think he was out to disparage the game itself; his point was that its marketing was pandering to the COD crowd.

          In fact, he definitely was not out to disparage the game, because he gave it a 10!

          • SilentPony

            HE SAID IT WAS BETTER THAN BREATH OF THE WILD?! HERESY!

          • Anton

            All jokes aside, Infinite was a piece of shit. Yes, I’m still salty, sue me.

          • SilentPony

            Aww, I liked it. One of the few games I’ve played with fun enough gameplay I 100%ed it.

          • Anton

            I was super psyched about it, and was even more so after reading the reviews. Bought it, beat it within the first 24 hours, and walked away with a heartbreaking case of “that’s it?”.

            Jim complained that its marketing panders to COD; I would say that the gameplay does as well. They minimized the role of the powers in gameplay, so that more than ever before, the player has to rely on pure fps action, which has never been Bioshock’s strength. Not having the creative range that Bioshock 1&2 gave me was incredibly dispiriting. The story was pretty decent, and I liked Elizabeth, but the writing would have been more subtle if they just had all the characters screaming “LOOK AT ALL THESE FUCKING THEMES, MOTHERFUCKER!!!” in Booker’s face. Religion, existentialism, race, sexism, and nationalism are all trotted out to create the illusion of depth, but none of them are used in any meaningful way beyond being window dressing. It all comes out as such a mess.

            I realize that I judged that game more harshly than most others, but that’s what happens when Ken Levine jacks expectations all the way up.

          • SilentPony

            Fair enough. I’ll grant its not a very subtle game. But I didn’t follow the hype, deliberately, so I went it just expecting another Bioshock game. Was slightly disappointed when I realized it wasn’t a horror game, but I still enjoyed the characters and gameplay. And the sliding around on the skyraills while water blaster people off ledges and curbstomping a sniper as I land was great fun!

          • Anton

            See, if it was “just another Bioshock game” I would have probably been much happier with it. Fun, creative, power-based gameplay, and the only Theme on tap is that Ayn Rand is(was) an idiot XD

          • SilentPony

            Well sure, but that’s kinda’ how I viewed it until the last hour or so. Fun, creative power-based gameplay and the theme on tap is that racism and classism are bad.

          • Anton

            Well, I guess it’s nice that everyone but me liked it, haha

          • SilentPony

            That’s not the appropriate reaction. You need to DDOS my website for an entire weekend. That was I know my opinion is wrong!

          • Anton

            Fuck, my bad, I’m sorry

          • SilentPony

            And don’t apologize! Question my sexuality! Call me a shill! Imply I’m getting paid to have a different opinion!

          • Anton

            I…. am so bad at this

            Have a good day? No, that’s not right, fuuuuuck…

          • SilentPony

            I should say so! Trying to be polite and respectful of another person’s opinion on the internet! I mean really!

          • Anton

            Wait, I know! Let’s have diamond talk about RE6 again, that’ll get me going!

            …I have the weirdest kinks

          • SilentPony

            Is Diamond here today? I didn’t hear him at roll-call.
            We could talk about ME3s ending, but we just did that a few days back. And Jim hasn’t been praising Dark Souls so my engine isn’t revving.

            OH! What if we argue about Ghost Recond Wildlands getting a 2.5 review?

          • Wolfie

            I got it. Bear with me while I prepare myself.

          • Wolfie

            SONIC ’06.

          • SilentPony

            No wait I got it! Dragon Age 2 getting a prefect score!

          • Gaealiege

            Dragon Age 2 is one of the worst AAA piles of shit to come out in years!

            Why anyone pretends like it’s superior or equivalent to Origins is beyond my comprehension.

          • Wolfie

            The joke is that diamond is a contrarian and likes what everyone hates and vice versa.

          • Gaealiege

            Did Diamond change his name to Darksteel? Good to know if that’s the case. Suddenly things are making more sense!

          • Wolfie

            Maaaybe? Not totally sure. Could just be an alt account of his.

          • darksteel6

            Steel Battalion Heavy Armor

          • darksteel6

            You mean on Destructoid? Personally I thought Mike’s review was very badly written, seemed like he just had a bad day and took it out on the game.

            He sounded very out of touch when he asked “who was this game for?”(clearly a lot of people considering how much it’s sold)

          • SilentPony

            I knew it was a kinda BS review when he said he failed the stealth missions, therefore the game was bad. As if its the game’s fault or something.
            I think they saw Jim and Breath of the Wild and just wanted to gin up controversy, try to get the Youtubers talking about them, get them clicks, make a splash, that sorta think. Clickbait I believe is the term, especially considering Destructoid gave Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor a better score.

          • darksteel6

            Yeah, forced stealth missions are not exactly an outdated trend like he says, there’s always at least a few games per year that have those, it really does sound to me like he just sucked at the game(somehow I have the feeling if he did a video on his gameplay, it would look like that infamous Polygon video on DOOM) and hated it because of that, i’m guessing he’s not a Souls fan.

            I do believe that review was clickbait, i’ve heard of games getting negative scores when the reviewer was not given the special edition of the game(that happened with Evil Within).

          • SilentPony

            See with a game called Ghost Recon I not only assumed but expected stealth missions. I mean complaining about mandatory stealth in a black-ops covert mission game is like complaining about mandatory time trials in a racing game.
            Came pre-advertised I thought.

            And the stealth doesn’t bother me! Its intense and requires planning, a little skill, and some luck. Does it get repetitive? Sure. But I enjoy it none the less.

          • darksteel6

            Yes, given that the franchise has always had those types of stealth missions, it seems more of a case of the reviewer not being familiar with the franchise and penalizing it for sticking to its guns(at least in that one area)

            I enjoy the stealth as well, and I did not find it particularly difficult.

          • Chris Schwartz-Brown

            You know what game was really underrated and deserves higher scores?

            Metroid prime federation force. Really just the highlight of the series.

          • Gorantharon

            Allegedly it’s darksteel and he seems to amicably participate in the discussion.

            WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU ALL?

          • drownedsummer

            It is.

          • Gorantharon

            “OH! What if we argue about Ghost Recond Wildlands getting a 2.5 review?”

            That is serioulsy a critic immune game. Many of the people who buy it don’t read reviews, you could name it the worst game ever and that audience would just happily play it.

            To get a rile out of them you’d have to include a full women hijab wearing hit squad as the main and only playable characters.

          • Chris Schwartz-Brown

            Sir, you watch your wife or girlfriend engage in sexual congress with other gentlemen and derive pleasure from the experience!!!

            There! Now I can disagree with you and say I was disappointed by infinite, not do to any issues with the story (although it was cringey in its attempts to do an all sides are just as bad twist) but because it just wasn’t as fun as the original. The combat wasn’t as interesting or varied and I found myself wanting to just turn it down to easy to get through it.

            Oh, and please good sir, do consume an entire bottle of cleaning fluids until you expire! There! That should cover everything.

          • darksteel6

            Yes I found the combat fairly tiresome myself, also Colombia was not nearly as interesting as Rapture was, the former just felt like one gigantic shooting gallery as opposed to a living and breathing city.

            Also fuck Lady Comstock, easily one of the one of the top 10 worst boss fights of all time, and you have to fight her three fucking times, who the fuck thought that was a good idea?

          • Gorantharon

            Ok, as all of you are seriously too friendly with each other, let me at least throw in a rude spelling correction:

            not due to

            So, phew, feeling better…

          • darksteel6

            I was eye-rolling when I saw how many perfect scores that game got, I immediately grew suspicious(kinda feel that way about Zelda’s scores too, I wonder how of many of those scores were honest and how many were done just to prevent the fanboys from throwing a hissy-hit)

          • darksteel6

            The vigors were definitely less interesting then Plasmids, and unlike Plasmids there’s no real explanation for why Vigors exist, they’re just kind of there.

            You’re not the only one who felt that way, Errant Signal, Matthewmatosis and VideogamerTV all said largely the same thing about the game that you did.

          • darksteel6

            I thought it was only OK at best, it handled racism really poorly and that ending had too many plot holes for it’s own good.

            Going from the hub-based design of the previous games to a linear FPS was very dissapointing(before anyone brings up COD, those games were linear from the start so i’m fine with that in those games) I agree with Total Biscuit that BI should not have been an FPS games, would’ve made more sense as a Telltale style game.

        • darksteel6

          I don’t think games like Medal of Honor are a good example, Infinite had an important female character who was kept off the cover because of scared marketing execs, which was not the case with any of the COD, Battlefield or MOH games, their covers made sense.

          • SilentPony

            Well I was more interested in the idea that Infinite hid the star, Elizabeth, on the back cover and it suffered as a result. Except it didn’t suffer, it sold gangbusters. The idea that a male on the cover helps sell games seems to have proven true was my point.

          • darksteel6

            But as Jim pointed out, Bioshock is an established and popular franchise, so there’s zero proof that the game would not have sold just as well if it did have it’s original cover, correlation does not equal causation.

      • Stelios Markios

        Let’s be honest here, it’s the humungous robot dinosaur (thunderjaw) that draws people in HZD’s cover, not Aloy, which in my book is cooler than a white dude with a shotgun.

    • BioShock Infinite was also the third sequel to an already very popular series… one that started with a very unconventional cover art that Ken Levine *stated* he used by putting artistry above marketing.

      Rather than shoot myself in the foot, I do believe I have augmented my pre-ord… my point.

      • 09philj

        At least Infinite has the correct cover art on the reverse of the sleeve.

      • SilentPony

        I guess I can understand that. I was looking at it more as a full view marketing thing, rather than just a comparison of covers. I thought you were saying more like ‘Look at what Bioshock Infinite did with its focus-grouped cover, and look how well it turned out for them’.

      • Muddy Scarecrow

        Not to mention marketing to frat boys is a ridiculous idea considering how fucking bonkers that game gets once it starts dump trucking quantum mechanics into the mix

        • Gaealiege

          The whole notion of marketing to frat boys (generally conservatives in ideology) with a game that directly points out the hypocrisies, inconsistencies, and evil of their religion and ideology…..genuinely crazy.

          • ccameron sprague

            That’s a rather generalizing statement from someone who likely looks down on others for doing the same…

  • 09philj

    Nobody will learn anything from Horizon Zero Dawn.
    Lara Craft clone Number 8746 will be forgotten as this is the only fate awaiting Lara Croft clones.
    The best game you ever play will be an indie game costing between £0 and £15.
    We are all going to die.
    Hooray for the status quo.

    • SilentPony

      I didn’t like Undertale. Take that and shove it up your status quo!

      • 09philj

        Undertale is not even in my top three indie games in that price range.

      • RedWolf

        Me neither. It were a loada wank if you ask me.

      • Gaealiege

        You forgot to mention how much you love the latest rendition of Call of Duty: NOW That’s What I Call Warfare!

        Also, Undertale is easily one of the best RPGs of the last decade.

    • Anton
    • Loona Chan

      I’m usually the first to be cynical, but between Nier, Horizon, Nioh, and BotW, one can see a little bit of silver lining that the AAA industry might be starting right ship.

      Andromeda looks like balls though so that’s not great.

      • Anton

        I would have a hard time describing Nier and Nioh as “AAA”. Still, it’s great that they’re getting recognized along with the big boys.

        • Loona Chan

          I go by publisher more than developer really, Squenix and Sony distributed Nier/Nioh, even if the dev wasn’t huge before now. AA games maybe?

          • Anton

            I think the term used to be B-market games – niche products, developed by smaller teams with smaller budgets than AAA (though not quite small enough to count as “indie”). Unfortunately, this segment got all but wiped out by the great AAA stampede that defined the second half of the 360/PS3 generation. People flocked to the multi-million franchises like COD and Assassins Creed, and publishers began killing off niche projects to chase the next great AAA whale.

            It is very encouraging, though, that these games are seemingly on the rise again.

          • Loona Chan

            Well I do remember a lot of publishers simply being smaller, like Bioware releasing its own games. Many of those smaller pub-devs were gobbled up over time, though. I fear the late 00s/early 10s will really be considered one of the worst times for gaming.

          • Anton

            That’s because they were. The transition of gaming from niche interest to big-budget product has done much damage to the industry – at least, from an artistic perspective.

          • 09philj

            Indie games were the first wave of interesting new work, but the return of the mid budget game as a quality product is what’s really pleasing.

            And by mid budget I mean a few million dollars rather than tens of millions of dollars.

          • Gorantharon

            Yeah, games that don’t need to sell 6 million copies to approach success, but are within their budget and thus can be a bit more focused than catch all please all.

        • Stelios Markios

          Actually Nier, Nioh and Zelda are the big boys. Sure, the first two re very niche games, but considering the production values and teams behind them, I would consider them AAA.

          And this is a very good thing actually, to see money, love, effort and marketing going towards niche titles.

      • Kev’ Bryant

        ME:A is okay. 7/10

    • Also, God is dead, and the new Mass Effect looks like poo.

    • darksteel6

      it’s not a clone.

      • 09philj

        I was talking about Aloy.

        • darksteel6

          she didn’t seem like a clone to me

        • Maka556

          Lara Croft wishes she were written like Aloy.

  • Hunter Zolomon

    That Life Hack killed me today, could not stop laughing haha. Anyway yeah its fantastic Horizon has done so well, hopefully more will learn from it even though i doubt it.

  • Peter O’Hanraha-hanrahan

    Life Hacks are quickly becoming more treasured to me than Fuck Konami News.

    • Loona Chan

      There’s not much left of Konami to fuck, sadly…

      • Chris Schwartz-Brown

        Life hack!!!!

        If you’re out of things to fuck, take a wildly popular series of stealth games and turn it into a shitty, generic co-op zombie game!! That way you can pretend to still be relevant while being totally creatively bankrupt!!!

        Life hack!!

        • Charlie Koszulinski

          Funny you should mention Metal Gear Survive, I was just watching a video about how Konami hasn’t said a thing after their announcement with a only a lackluster gameplay demo from Tokyo Game Show to show off. After that, silence. The video went on to speculate that there might be something going on with the development. so there might not be anything to fuck at all, which brings me to my next point:

          LIFE HAX!!!
          Can’t find anything to fuck? Use your hands! That’s what they were made for!

          • Gorantharon

            After the reception that trailer got, if I was in a leading position at Konami, I’d have slapped some people’s heads, canceled the project and considered what can be salvaged from that mess.

  • TJ Barke

    I can sell multiples. Why can’t I buy multiples?! I NEED MOAR WIRE!

    • Stelios Markios

      Using the ol’ precision arrows then? I have the exact same problem with the stupid wire

      • TJ Barke

        And the ropecaster.

        • Landy Alexander

          I finished this game with like 10 stacks of wire. Basically never used the precision bow or the ropecaster. That’s some impressive diversity in game play options.

    • Gorantharon

      Everythig else drops so much that I need to sell it, but not wire, never enough wiire.

  • I’m not a trophy person at all, but I got the platinum for this game the other day. I couldn’t stop playing until all those boxes were ticked. The game is just so damn slick and compelling to play. Going through it again now, then onto Torment: T.O.N.

    • The Bandsaw Vigilante

      Same here — I’m only two trophies away from the Platinum, one of them being the “Destroy 23 Training Dummies”-one from the very beginning of the game. This game is amazingly addictive, and like you, I’m being relentless in getting those last couple of statuettes (I’m not usually like this).

  • darksteel6

    I don’t think most of Ubisoft’s open world are bland and by the numbers at all, I think most of them are pretty damn awesome, loving Wildlands so far.

    Hey now Nickelback is a great band, their new song “Feed the Machine” is a hell of a lot better then Linkin Park’s godawful new song “Heavy”, which does not even resemble LP, it sounds more like the Chainsmokers.

    Halo Wars 2 is very good indeed, I can send you a copy if you want Jim.

    • ccameron sprague

      They do the exact same thing every time. That’s what by the numbers means, whether you enjoy them or not is irrelevant.

      • darksteel6

        No they do not, that’s a flagrant lie you moron

  • Jonathan Allbritten

    Ya know, for a second there I thought you were gonna start talking about Gender and Race Politics in gaming (at which point I had to tense myself to make sure to stay calm cause I know you normally have a decent point and I was watching this to improve my shitty day since you’re pretty awesome) and I was pleasantly surprised you focused on the whole diversity in gaming bit in terms of options for people.

    Honestly, I don’t quite get the love for Horizon (find it pretty bland myself), but thank you for not making things about how awesome Horizon is for having a woman; I get that that’s a cool thing for some people, but that shouldn’t be some magical major merit that balances out (or overshadows) other flaws.

    …..Sigh….I feel like making your own character should just be a basic part of epic scale video games nowadays. I don’t care for Last of Us, Witcher 3, Horizon Zero Dawn, ect…in part cause I just don’t care for strong, pre-defined characters and/or linear narratives.

    Good RPGs like Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, or Dragon Age don’t even have to face the diversity ‘issues’ thanks to the fact that they’re automatically inclusive thanks to how the story and game play unfolds.

    • darksteel6

      I’m OK with that, to me it would be boring if every single game just let you create your own character, sometimes i’d rather have the writers create one, that’s more interesting.

      • Jonathan Allbritten

        Ya know, I think Mass Effect did this perfectly.

        In three, for instance, there’s an option for automating the decision making and everything so the player can focus on gameplay and treat Commander Shepard and the story as an unfolding narrative told to them. And even when making your own Shepard in one, the player still only has limited backgrounds and stuff to choose from for them. Helps let you feel like your making your own version, but also strengthens the writing and makes them feel fleshed out.

        This is topped with the fact that you can just choose a default pre-packaged version too.

        In ME: A, there’s even two twins and each has their own mini-backstory and writing…even though you can also choose to customize their looks/training. And if you stick with the defaults, the game actually will go the extra step and call your character by their first names and bring them more alive to exemplify the strength of the character writing and narrative.

        Just……why can’t more games be like ME; giving the options for either or?

        • darksteel6

          I agree that Mass Effect did it very well, but I don’t think it would’ve worked very well if a game like say Tomb Raider or Uncharted did something like that, character creators just would not have worked in those games.

          • Jonathan Allbritten

            This is true, sadly. BUT! Hey, that’s why Horizon selling well is suppose to make us all happy, right? It helps give us diversity so we’re all happy ;P

          • Kev’ Bryant

            #savelarrycroft

    • ccameron sprague

      Except all of the “good” RPGs had really weak main characters whose purpose was just to get information out of the world or other characters. You can’t have a complex and in-depth character when you just get to make them however you want, their background and genuineness just pails everytime in comparison to a well written predefined character.

      • Jonathan Allbritten

        Except ME disproves this to an extent. And so does DA. We only have limited options, so that the writers have an easier time.

        I’m not saying the same level of writing goes into them, but that value is lost on me when I’m more interested in the character to character interactions and feeling like I’m directly in control and effecting things.

        The Role Playing immersive aspects are more important to me than many other qualities.

        Thus, I’m not a fan of strong, pre-defined characters. I feel out of control, out of sync with the character I’m supposedly suppose to role play as; which inherently will constantly bug me as i play.

  • The Bandsaw Vigilante

    Also, Jim, isn’t the name “Aloy” a nod towards H.G. Wells and The Time Machine (“Eloi” being the far-future tribal human descendants of ourselves)? I can also buy the name being an echo of the word “alloy,” but the Wells-homage seems much more likely, given the two stories’ similar themes.

    • Maxx Kilbride

      Devs confirmed it’s Alloy.

      • Christian Pohl

        Just an FYI: Aloy’s foster father is called Rost, which is the German translation for rust. Picking metal-related names for the main characters, especially when most other tribespeople seem to come from the random three-letter name generator, doesn’t feel like a coincidence.

    • PuceMoose

      That’s a very interesting observation. Thanks for sharing.

  • Will113

    Sterling if your not being bribed by Sony how do you explain this UNDENIABLE PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/68e14b88b3021f8cc4c09aaae380bf89edf8672dce4340f910e449378482ee1a.jpg
    Though in all seriousness it is nice when the AAA gaming industry doesn’t fuck up completely.

    • Enigma_2099

      … the hell did you get that?!?!?! I thought I burned all of those!!!

    • OctopussGrift

      COLLUSION!

    • Shane O’Shaughnessy

      LOL!

    • RedWolf

      Okay, this made me chuckle.

    • Maxx Kilbride

      He needs to put this in one of his videos.

    • uxtull

      Motherfucker…

    • Sperium3000

      LIKE A DAMN FIDDLE

    • Chris Schwartz-Brown

      Damn, I take it all back. That’s pretty incontrovertible right there. I give Jim’s objectivity the worst possible score, 7/10

    • Anticitizen1

      Checkmate!

    • Gaealiege

      I’d have photoshopped his dildo bat where the money is. Only then would this masterpiece would be complete!

  • Cerebralbore101

    Jim is so right about how good this year has turned out so far. Yakuza, RE7, Nioh, Nier, Persona 5, BotW and Horizon all within the first 4 months? My wallet hurts. It hurts so bad.

    • Regless Unkown

      yeah that’s like a year’s worth of happiness rapid-fired at my face. I was actually gonna skip horizon just to the sheer volume of quality content coming out. But after watching a couple let’s players and turning my couch inside out then burning it to pay the heating bill i decided yeah i need that as well.

      • Shane O’Shaughnessy

        Good man!

      • Kev’ Bryant

        That’s what she said.

  • Gennadios

    Jim, start a concurrent life hack Patreon. This shit’s gold.

    • OctopussGrift

      LIFE HACK: Have a Pateron? Get a second one, double your money!

  • Steve Jakab

    I’m glad to see Mr Sterling use the word “myriad” correctly.

  • Regless Unkown

    I’m glad jim included talking about variety after diversity. I agree completely. I don’t really like PC culture, and yet there’s been years when I’ve so many of the same generic white solider protagonist types it’s killed my interest in some games. And the games didn’t even look bad otherwise. Some of them looked pretty damn good. It was just kinda felt like… really…? again…? Haven’t I seen this like six times already this year? Variety is the spice of life!

    • Kev’ Bryant

      That was how I felt seeing The Surge. Modern games really have no excuse to not have a choice of gender for the protagonist, at the least.

      • ccameron sprague

        Except for when they want to actually create a genuine and believable character and not a hollow shell of one like the majority of the bioware main characters.

  • Shane O’Shaughnessy

    Wonderful discussion, Jim! I can’t recall the last time I was so in love with a game. Horizon is so fucking awesome! I was actually super happy to hear that additional content is in the works, even though I agree with your grudge against DLC and season passes for the most part.

  • Chürz

    Fuck Nintendo, fuck Zelda and fuck the Switch. Still, Breath of the Wild is a good game. But, Nintendo zealots? They’re assholes, however you look at it. Fuck them.

    • Mostafa Shahin

      So a game,company,etc should be hated due to their fans and not their own thing? Like,I get hating the game,but hating the game because of something outside the games control is just stupid. Undertale would have been ine of the worst games of its year if that’s how we judge games.

  • LatePocketwatch

    Reboot for 28 Days Later.

    A Zelda game comes out with a female Link whose critical acclaim is surpassed by another closely released console exclusive female lead game. It will make Crossed look like it’s​ under the Comics Code.

    • Maxx Kilbride

      Better yet. Female Link game surpasses BoTW / OoT @ 99-100 score.

      Nintendo fans…would implode.

  • Peter Dale

    Nice use of some Comix Zone music during the Life Hack. Now I wanna go and punch me some mutants.

  • Graham Maddeaux

    I love this whole go out of your way at every opportunity to try to rile up Breath of The Wild fans and advocates but throw your arms up any time they hit back a little and try to be all “What who me? We’re talking about the worst behaved fans in the world here blalblabla….” Like what you don’t think if you keep metaphorically poking specifically at the same group of people with a stick at every opportunity they might possibly get a little annoyed and take a swipe or two back at you even just to say “look we get it you want attention but shut up already and stick to your points”?

    You can’t even seem to mention it in passing anymore. There always has to be some snide backhanded sort of remark or lingering bait aside that sees it singled out whenever it’s brought up as an example of a recent game but you never actually full on commit to a position on it so that if people actually do take the bait there’s already an easy out. I’m starting to see why your more eloquent critics refer to you as the ultimate fence sitter a lot more.

    Stay classy with the drama and beefs there Jim.

    • Johnny Bigbones

      That shit is all in your head mate. He just really liked Horizon Zero Dawn and only liked Breath of the Wild, mostly due to an obnoxious weapon durability system. The drama only comes from childish Zelda fans who can’t cope with that.

    • Forrest Kayssen

      I see it more as him acknowledging certain points that will be used against him in this huge “Us vs him” thing the Zelda fanatics will try to use against him.

      And why shouldn’t he poke back at those guys? It’s harmless words. He’s not doxxing them, DDoSing their sites, sending them death threats, flooding their comments sections with abuse, e.t.c, e.t.c.

    • Otherhand

      He has committed to a position on it. BOTW is a game he really likes, but didn’t feel it was deserving of a top score.

      The sly juxtaposition of “some that I hate” with the Link image was a joke about how all-or-nothing that portion of the Nintendo crowd is being. It doesn’t mean he’s sitting on the fence or failing to commit. It’s not “one minute I’ll say I like it, the next I’ll say I hate it”. The permanent truth is “I like this game but aspects of it could easily have been improved”, which other people are continually trying to bend into hatred.

  • Stelios Markios

    It’s always good to see new IP, even more so when it delivers and builds strong foundations for the future. I must say, the lore and world building in HZD has a lot of potential for expansion and I believe that the second game, which will inevitably come, has so much to build upon that might end up easily a masterpiece. Or a complete failure. Sequels are tricky.

    • Bashtarle

      They definitely left themselves both room for not only compelling expansion DLC but also for full blown sequels. Without leaving you feeling that they carved out huge sections of the game to do either.

  • Artemiy

    I’m somewhat surprised that Jim didn’t talk about the EA facial animator being harassed or the newest LGBTQ YouTube debacle.

    • Фролов Денис

      Hey, that’s what you get for either being incompetent at job given, or lying about your position.

      • Artemiy

        Dude, really? Some of the comments were just vile. It’s one thing to criticize a person’s work and pretty much another to say “I’m gunna stick my dick in ya”.

        • Фролов Денис

          That’s internet. We can call it wrong all the time, but it will happen anyway. What did she expect when she told she was lead facial animator (which may be a lie to begin with)? Free glory ride?

          • Artemiy

            Dude, no. Just because “that’s the Internet” we shouldn’t be silent about this behavior. It’s sick and disgusting.

          • Sacha Salvatore Morgese

            That’s the internet == it’s okay on the internet.

            It isn’t, we have to fight against this kind of bullshit or more people will think it’s okay to act this way.

          • RipTide

            Yes that’s the internet. Takes a lie and runs with it, without fact checking, to insult and send death threats to a single person for a thing they weren’t at fault for.

            Just because that is how things are doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to change it.

          • Andrew Christianson

            That’s the attitude! This is how you change the world!

        • GreenGarden & 5th DD Clone

          And then there were the death threats and the accusations she slept her way into getting her job…

          Because apparently gamers nowadays can’t be constructive anymore and thinking blaming one woman is a good idea.

      • GreenGarden & 5th DD Clone

        Neither of those things are true… she didn’t lie about her position (the original blog post at Ralph Retort did that) and she wasn’t incompetent at her job given the facial animations were not the work of one person and her job and wasn’t the lead.

    • anomalous material

      Could be in a post launch episode?

      • Artemiy

        Maybe… Though I personally don’t think Jim should wait until after launch to report and condone harassment.

  • ThinkingClass

    Just watched the first episode of skeleton warriors.
    Jim, I was wondering, why are they a euphemism for the C word? I was hoping to discover some subtle adult jokes in the 13 episode tour-de-force of bone breaking adventure but nothing so far. To save me from further seizure inducing episodes could you enlighten me?

    yours faithfully
    A Nobody.

  • GreenGarden & 5th DD Clone

    Speaking of YouTube’s restrictive mode debacle, has anyone checked to see how many of Jim’s videos are restricted in that mode?

  • iThinkMyCatIsAFlea

    I blinking love It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia!

    That Horizon Zero Dawn gameplay looks quite boring. Fire bow. Fire bow. Fire bow. Fire bow. Fire bow. Roll. Fire bow. Fire bow. Fire bow. Fire bow. Crouch. Fire bow. Fire bow. Fire bow. Fire bow. Fire bow. Fire bow.

    • Gorantharon

      That BotW gameplay looks quite boring, weapon breaks, select weapon, weapon breaks, select weapon, weapon breaks, select weapon, inventory empty, backtrack to farm good weapons again and make no progress.

      • iThinkMyCatIsAFlea

        Yeah, I was thinking that. We need more examples!

        • Kev’ Bryant

          Shower with your dad simulator: wrong dad, wrong dad, wrong dad, wrong dad, wrong dad….

      • Artemiy

        That DOOM gameplay looks quite boring. Fire gun. Fire gun. Break a demon’s back. Fire gun…

    • Terriosaurus Hex

      We could play this deductive game with any darling…err, game;
      Dark souls: slash, dodge, fall off building, slash, roll, kill, fall off precipice, attack, kill, dodge…*yawn* boring.

      Enter the gungeon: shoot shoot shoot, dodge, open door, shoot, new weapon, shoot more, dodge, fall into hole…*yawn* so boring.

      Witcher 3: talk, waffle, talk, stab, dodge, stab, sarcastic waffle…*yawn* seen it all before. Not interested.

      I could go on like this all day if you like…

      • iThinkMyCatIsAFlea

        Please do. Do Portal next!

        • Gorantharon

          Open portal, jump, close portal, open portal, jump, close portal, open portal, jump, close portal, open portal, miss jump, restart level, repeat…

          • stryker1121

            GOD HOW BORING!

        • Terriosaurus Hex

          Hey! I never offered requests! Anyhow, the title of the game does the job for me 😉

      • Artemiy

        Oh God. Imagine what Crypt of the Necrodancer deconstruction would look like…

      • Wolfie

        How about Shadow Warrior?

        Slice, slice, slice, switch weapon, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, wang joke, switch weapon, slice, slice…

        Edit: Civilization against India.

        Get nuked, get nuked, get nuked, get nuked, next turn…

        • iThinkMyCatIsAFlea

          Wang joke 🙂

        • Terriosaurus Hex

          Die from fall damage glitch by dodging forwards on ground sloping downwards. Wait, that’s not very snappy, is it?

      • Kev’ Bryant

        You missed “bone” off of The Witcher list.

        • Terriosaurus Hex

          Was legitimately considering it, but the activity never happened in my playthrough so didn’t want to sound inauthentic :/

    • stryker1121

      Fighting humans is indeed quite dull, but the robot battles haven’t gotten old for me and I’m 40 some odd hours in. Plus there’s multiple weapon options available to take down robots.

    • Maybe Not a Robot

      Trust me it’s not this simple.

    • Andrew Christianson

      Super Mario: Run, Jump, Run, Jump, Run, Jump, SHOOT FIREBALLS, Run, Jump, Run, Jump, Run, Jump, INVINCIBLE, Run, Jump

  • GreenGarden & 5th DD Clone

    Okay I’ve checked, on Jim Sterling’s channel, only 20 videos he’s done are available in restricted mode, none of which are the Jimqusistion:

    1. JESTER’S QUEST – Save The Kingdom For Half A Princess
    2. Electronic Boglins From The Future Year 2000 (Boglinwatch 2017)
    3. SUPER DUNGEON BROS. – Hack n’ Axl n’ Slash
    4. PASSPARTOUT – Painting Puppet People
    5. PAC MAN CHAMPIONSHIP EDITION 2 – I Don’t Have A Subtitle
    6. ZOO KEEPER OR SO LONG SPACE ROBOT – Trying A Bit Too Hard
    7. PIXEL MINI GAME HUB – Brought To You By EZVid8. JURASSIC ISLAND: THE 8.DINOSAUR ZOO – Spared No Expense
    9. ROLLER PUZZLE – Headphones Not Recommended
    10. I, GLADIATOR – I, Obvious Mobile Port
    11. FRUIT GARDEN – Get Many Fruits!
    12. THE JUMPER – Shapes Dance In Mute Reverence
    13. PLAYING HISTORY 2: SLAVE TRADE – That Was Slave Tetris (How is this one available???)
    14. Bandai Tamashii Nations S.H. MonsterArts Alien Warrior – Alien Stuff
    15. DUNGEON KEEPER MOBILE – A Faithful Classic
    16. The Dismal Jesters – Mantic Games Sponsorship Appeal
    17. Aliens Xenomorph Plush – Alien Stuff
    18. Best Super Guide: DuckTales Remastered
    19. The Dark Knight Rises: Improved Voice for Bane
    20. Metroid Prime 3 WiiWare

    • Artemiy

      Thanks for your service, concerned citizen!
      To be fair, Jim isn’t exactly being children-safe when it comes to cursewords. Or occasional pics of dick costumes.

      • anomalous material

        Or waving a giant purple dong on a stick around…

        • Artemiy

          Yeah, that too.

      • Kev’ Bryant

        My four month old daughter finds the podcasts soothing.

        But then again, she does look a bit like Jim.

  • Terriosaurus Hex

    The amount I agree with you on those sinister “sjw” topics is probably cause for concern (at least among those who find concern in other people’s empathy), so the spoken passion is very much relieving to hear, as it seems too many are afraid of addressing simple issues head on with self-awareness and humour. The backlash we experience online is more like growing pains of a begrudging part of society with varying levels of intellect and selfishness. Anyhow, always appreciated. (Huh…A triple A alliteration? Too many “A”s for fuck sake stop “A”ing publicly terriosaurus, they might hear!)

  • Martin Birch

    I’ve noticed you using images from The Ancestral Trail a couple of times on The Jimquisition recently and every time it makes my heart skip a beat. I was totally obsessed with it as a kid but had not though about it for years.
    Think I may still have it in my parent’s attic somewhere.. I need a trip back soon to see if I can dig it out.

    • Kev’ Bryant

      Ditto. Although mine has been lost to time!

      Remember after the last issue (25?) they went into the future?

      • Martin Birch

        Yeah, I had all of the future ones as well, though it wasn’t quite as good from what I remember… the series as a whole totally rocked though.

  • Joccaren

    A bit disappointed with this one TBH. I think you need to follow your own advice from last episode – “They did it first isn’t a good excuse”.

    I feel too much of this was spent slighting Zelda and its fans, and purposefully going out of your way to ignore it and talk up HZD, as a “Get back at the fanboys” sort of move. That’s the sort of thing fanboys do, and I tend to come here to watch someone who isn’t a fanboy trying to pump up or knock down games, and get a bit of a more reasoned view on things.

    For example, almost all of your comments about things HZD does right [Excluding season pass, and Female Protagonist] end up applying to Zelda as well. Instead of talking about the things that it did right, despite not liking the game – something you asked other people to do for HZD – you simply taunted its fanbase and tried to put it down as what I can only really see as a bit of petty revenge.

    Both look like great games, and honestly this whole thing is a nontroversy – almost everyone outside of a handful of shit flingers I’m guessing you have to deal with, and are bordering on becoming one of, recognises both Zelda and HZD as great games, and are happy for the amazing games we have coming out ATM. Being more impartial and talking about the benefits of all the great games that are coming out ATM, not just Zelda and HZD but things like Neir Automata and other recent greats, would have done more justice to the episode, the topic, and the gaming fans who watch these shows.

    I’d recommend looking through Youtube comments a bit less, as they really are the scum of the internet. I don’t think you’re a fanboy, or want to put down Zelda and talk up HZD or anything of the likes, but i do think you’re letting a handful of idiots get to you, and it did affect the quality of this episode. I look forward to more of your normal quality in the future, once you either learn to just ignore the stupid, or move on to another topic, but for me this episode was a miss – it was one that should have been about a number of games, but that got turned into a shot back at a handful of annoying fans instead – which normally would be ok, but I felt it undermined the message you tried to present in this video and the last, being almost hypocritical with some of your statements. I’d save the digs at games because of fanboys for videos specifically meant for that, not ones that try to give a message of liking other games and appreciating what they do, not taking a dig at them because of fanboys.

    • RipTide

      To be fair, this video was more addressing the controversy around H:ZD’s release where people were saying it was a shit game and only getting attention because SJW, and people that wanted to boycott it because it featured a woman protagonist. The jabs at Zelda are just Jim venting his frustration with people a bit, rather then pointing to this whole thing being about Zelda fans.

      • Joccaren

        I still feel that makes things overall a bit hypocritical. This is Jim defending a game he likes against unfair criticism from those who don’t like it, and asking his viewers to look beyond their individual like/dislike of it, and the stupid ghost war of console fanboys, to see the good in this game regardless.

        He then goes on to perpetuate the ghost war and act like a console fanboy, while underplaying the virtues of Zelda as a game – many of which are the same as for HZD – because he doesn’t like the title as much.

        He does exactly what he asks others not to do, even if meant as just a jab at the Zelda fanboys, or venting, and it kind of undermines his whole point.

        Any other video I think it would have worked, but with the point he was trying to make in this one I feel it went against the message he was trying to present.

        • Niall

          I think you’ve missed the point of the piece. There are things that HZD does that bucks the trend so to speak, that we’ve been told video games can’t do If they want to be successful. So it doesn’t have a season pass (as far as I’m aware, Zelda does); it has a female protagonist and isn’t afraid to show it, etc.

          These aren’t things that make it a better game per se: a game can be great whether you play a man, woman or an elf. It’s just good to see a great game do these things and be successful.

          The digs at the Zelda fanbase are clearly tongue in cheek, and should be taken light-heartedly. And the term ‘fanboy’ is one of those meaningless monikers that nobody ever identifies as but only accuse others of being. Like ‘hipster’.

          • Joccaren

            Yet when also talking about lack of Microtransactions, Day 1 DLC, Pre-order bonuses [Which Zelda trumps even HZD in, doing merely physical merchandise as bonuses rather than withholding any in game content]…

            Yes, Zelda does have some minor Amiibo fluff that can be gained, however to echo Jim in relation to HZD; Its equipment that is outclassed by easily obtainable equipment in the game, so its kind of hard to criticise it much for that, and its especially obvious that its there only as references to the series and easter eggs for those who enjoyed the games rather than anything ripped from the game itself.

            Outside hosting Link, the main character who has historically been male, on the cover, the cover also isn’t exactly your standard fare of grizzled white dude with a gun filling the screen, instead focusing on the world and harkening back to the series’ original cover a good 30 years ago.

            The game also completely reworks the Zelda formula that has existed for 15 or more years since OOT, providing a very fresh experience that isn’t just a focus tested rehash of the series’ previous games.

            Jim talking about how HZD gets the focus of open worlds right, focusing on creating a densley populated world with interesting things to do rather than just a big world, is also perfectly in line with what Breath of the Wild has done, and the entire speal about “Yes it has all this, but done differently and well” applies equally as well to BotW.

            Stepping outside the Zelda comparison, what about Neir Automota and its female protagonist, cover and lack of season pass and such.

            This episode is attempting to celebrate the diversity in modern games, yes, however it eschews that focus in favour of also pushing the whole “Like HZD no matter whether you like it or not and recognise the good it does”, while hypocritically ostensibly not doing the same for BotW.

            Its an episode of two themes that shouldn’t have been mixed together, but were, and ended up making the episode feel weak, and like Jim got distracted from its main point by his frustration in dealing with BotW fans. I found that took away from the episode as a whole, and simply focusing it on the great things that buck trends that a number of games, not just HZD, are doing right now, would have made for a great episode – since we’ve already had the “There is a ghost war nontroversy” episode and that didn’t really need rehashing. It really just feels like he hijacked a good episode to try and defend a game he loves against people who don’t like it – which he’s done before, but again, this time the way he’s done it is undermined by his digs at said fanboys.

            Nearer to the end of the episode he does mention in passing a bunch of other games, however that’s where the focus of the episode should have been, rather than simply HZD. It wouldn’t have been hard to change “And HZD is so awesome because it has a female protagonist” to “And recent games like HZD and Neir automata are proving that female protagonists do sell copies”.

            The fact that this piece isn’t focused on what you’ve identified as its point is precisely my problem with it. It splits its focus between games that buck the trend and are still successful, and the ghost war between BotW and HZD, when the latter should simply have been ignored in favour of a more focused episode that reinforced Jim’s points, rather than occasionally contradicted them – even if in a ‘tongue in cheek’ way.

          • Joccaren

            I had another reply here, however for some reason it is gone, so I’ll do the short version of it.

            Yes, HZD bucks some trends. Looking at Zelda, however, it also matches every other ‘trend bucking’ thing HZD does that Jim talked about, sometimes even better than HZD itself [I.E: Preorder bonuses. Nothing in game, merely physical merchandise]. There are also other games like Neir Automata that do similar things and are similarly quite successful. Why were these only covered in 2 seconds at the end of the video in a list of names, rather than added to the meat of the video, when this was supposed to be its main focus?

            Jim also goes into detail on how HZD “Does open world’s right”, and even while following a ton of industry open world trends, does them differently enough that it feels fresh and unique. I’ll just point to the “Good Game Design – Breath of the Wild” video on Youtube that compares the two, and shows how LoZ does this as well, and in many ways better than even HZD.

            I feel Jim split his attention this episode between showcasing the diversity in games that are bucking the trend, the point of the video you’ve identified, and perpetuating the nontroversy of HZD vs Zelda because of some silly fanboys harassing him. It detracts from his points, and the episode would have been stronger if focused on the main idea you identified it as trying to portray, turning the tone from “HZD is awesome, look its got a female protagonist and does open world right” to “Games this year have been awesome. Titles like HZD and Neir Automata are proving female protagonists can sell games, BotW and HZD are showing how the stale checkboxes of Open World Design can be made interesting” – ect.

            It feels like Jim was distracted by trying to defend HZD in this whole nontroversy, and let that get in the way of what could have been a great episode. That’s my main issue with it. Even if half of it is tongue in cheek, it just distracts from the point of the episode too much.

          • Niall

            Everything you say about the new Zelda is no doubt true. But, crucially, none of it is part of the story being told. This is not a “who wore it better” piece between Zelda and HZD.

            This is a story about a brand new IP that took some chances and still managed to be successful, and—this is the punchline—why that’s good news for the games industry in general, even if you don’t own a Playstation. Even if you love the new Zelda, and hate PS4 with a passion, you should still be happy to see a new AAA IP pushing envelopes and doing well.

            You seem to think this would be a better story if it took a more generic standpoint: “There’s lots of good games for every format so every gamer should be happy!” I find this far less interesting: an inoffensive piece that doesn’t provoke debate.

            Zelda is one of the biggest video game franchises in existence. I have no doubt the new Zelda is incredible and I hope it helps them shift a load of Switches. But if you want to see a hagiography on Zelda, you can go to any other website and find it, you can watch hundreds of hours of youtube. It’s not like Zelda has been unfairly ignored—it couldn’t be getting more good press.

            But this story deserves to be told as well. It’s easy for established series that are guaranteed a big audience to take chances, but it’s a harder sell when you’re peddling a new IP that isn’t playing it safe. They took a gamble and it paid off—they deserved the plaudits. And, as the video explicitly states, this isn’t a zero sum game. Giving plaudits here doesn’t take them away from Zelda or Nier.

          • Joccaren

            And the same should be true in reverse as well; Even if you don’t own a Switch, and don’t like Zelda, you should recognise that it has done much the same as HZD, and praise it for that. What does Jim do? The opposite, for most of the video.
            Is it only HZD that this applies to? Every other game in existence is fine to ignore its merits if you don’t like it but HZD you have to like?
            No, I don’t think that’s what Jim is trying to say. However when he himself ignores the merits of other games because he doesn’t like them and their fanbase, it detracts from the whole idea of the episode. It presents him as simply focused on HZD, despite the fact that his point ISN’T just about that game.

            I’m also not saying that we should be happy about lots of good games for every format. I’m saying there are numerous games doing exactly what HZD does – bucking trends and showing that the standard AAA mindset is deeply flawed – that are either outright ignored, or actually have shots taken at them, in an episode that’s meant to celebrate games that buck industry trends.
            Again, does Jim mean to say that ONLY HZD is worthy of this sort of approach? God damn I really doubt it, yet that’s the sort of tone he sets up in the episode thanks to his approach and treatment of other games. It gets in the way of his core point.

            Also, yes you can go anywhere and see people praising Zelda. Its the exact same story with HZD – you can go anywhere and see people praising it to shits end. The whole reason this is focused on HZD, and is there as a “Love it even if you hate it” sort of thing, is because Jim has been receiving a lot of negative attention from Zelda fanboys, who hate HZD, and he feels the need to shove them the big middle finger and say “You fanboys that hate HZD, you should like it!”. That is why the episode is based entirely around HZD, rather than other games – such as Neir Automata, since Zelda seems to be a sticking point here.
            Given the context of the situation, and the contents of the episode, it just falls flat.

            Additionally, its actually far harder to take chances with a successful AAA title than a new IP. New IP are there specifically for taking chances in the AAA industry; you give them a lower budget, and a bit less oversight, and see what comes out of it. Imagine Call of Duty becoming a heavily moralising and story based game like Spec Ops: The Line, and doing away with most of its multiplayer. It wouldn’t happen, its ludicrous to even think of it – because its an established franchise, and you don’t mess with what isn’t broken.
            The biggest “Risk” taken recently in that department is probably Battlefield 1, not for actually changing much up at all, but simply for setting itself in a different era. Even that was considered too much of a risk to take, and it was barely allowed to do so.

            So, seeing a AAA title completely reinvent itself, bucking all the focus tested trends of both its previous games, and the games in the genre its now entering, is honestly more miraculous than seeing a new IP do it. Coming from Nintendo, sure, its a bit more expected, but a new IP is also expected to take some risks. Its where most of the industry’s risks come from.

            And again, this isn’t supposed to be a Zelda vs HZD thing. There are multiple games doing exactly what Jim is praising HZD for, and its not a Zero sum game – so praising all of them doesn’t diminish the value of praising one. It feels Jim let his annoyance at the Zelda fanbase take over the episode, which made it lesser.
            Because, honestly, HZD has been getting universal praise from everywhere. Where else does this “Even if you don’t like it” and “No Matter Who you are” side of things come from, if not from his annoyance with the handful of Zelda fans who have annoyed him over his review?
            Its a response to Zelda. And that takes away from the majority of the points in the episode, because as you’ve said; this isn’t a “Who wore it better”, yet it is treated as such when it shouldn’t have been.

            Even ignoring praising other games, rewriting the episode to not have any reference to the “No matter who you are” dig would have improved it. Simply praising HZD and pointing out quickly at the end that others have done similar.
            That’s not where the episode went though. From the title itself, it starts as a dig at Zelda fans, even if meant “Tongue in cheek” [I don’t fully believe that. Some of the jokes; yes. Jim’s attitude in general; No]. It weakens the episode.

            Imagine a Youtuber who gave HZD a 7/10, and Zelda a 10/10 made a video with a title “Why Zelda’s success is good for everyone, even if its a 7/10”, made constant references to Jim, and poked fun at HZD, while praising all the same things Jim has praised in that game, but for Zelda instead. We’d be seeing a very different perspective. We’d be decrying the obvious stab at Jim as weakening the episode and unnecessary, even if the points the episode made were valid and true. All I am doing, is holding Jim to those same standards. This nontroversy has weakened the episode, and I’d rather see it not surface in future episodes. Not because I don’t like him picking on Zelda, but because in this episode, it has counteracted the points he’s trying to make, and I’m used to a higher quality from Jim. Its not a terrible episode, but everyone has off days, especially when they let harassment get to them.

            Hence my original post; ignore the youtube comments and silly fanboy behaviour, and focus on the core of the episode. He’s welcome to his opinions and views, I’m just used to him presenting them in a way that doesn’t run counter to his own points. I don’t feel he meant to do so, but its how it was presented, and a bit less reaction to a controversy that basically only exists here would have made a much better episode.

  • stryker1121

    Really happy to see HZD selling well. It’s a damn good game and deserves the $$$. Hopefully this leads to more new IP with colorful landscapes and someone other than a grunting white beardo as a protag.

  • Nitrium

    In other news: Mass Effect Andromeda is being MetaBombed big time:

    http://www(DOT)metacritic(DOT)com/game/pc/mass-effect-andromeda/user-reviews 4.1/10
    http://www(DOT)metacritic(DOT)com/game/playstation-4/mass-effect-andromeda 3.8/10
    http://www(DOT)metacritic(DOT)com/game/xbox-one/mass-effect-andromeda 3.9/10

    Somehow it has the highest rating on PC, who are usually by far the saltiest of the major platforms.

  • Chürz

    H:ZD is such a great, GREAT game. It kinda is a shame it’s not on PC.