smashBG
Member
smashBG

Damn, and I thought the YouTube episode was good. I think there should’ve been more emphasis on bloated budgets and marketing bullshit, though. Deus Ex TV, anyone?

Dax Cushman
Member

And in Canada, videogames are $80, not 60.

Chu Chow
Member

As is Australia. And console games now cost $100+. FML. 🙁

Donald Milliken
Member

It never fails to amaze me the knots some people will twist themselves into defending the shitty business practices of greedy corporations. You already give them your money, you don’t owe them a damn thing else.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

I’ve seen some fools on the official Cynical Brit sub-reddit defending this crap which is quite depressing.

Chris
Member

Is it surprising that he attracts a following of toxic gamer idiots?

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

screw off, most people in that thread agreed with him and he said pretty much the same thing Jim said about lootboxes. Plus we’ve seen plenty of toxic people commenting on Jim’s videos and on here as well, so quit acting like TB is the only person to have toxic fans and stop with this tribalistic bullshit “guilt by association” nonsense.

Chris
Member

Fair enough, it’s not really his fault he has the kind of fans that say, use multiple sock puppet accounts on Twitter to harass women who make mild jokes about him and shout sexist slurs at them. The responsibility for that kind of fan has to be entirely on the person doing it, wouldn’t you agree?

drownedsummer
Member
drownedsummer

Yes, we have seen plenty of individuals who comment on Jim’s comment who can be frequently toxic. At least one had an account deleted due to this.

MopeyBloke
Member

I find it hard to justify buying any games that don’t come complete. Retro gaming really helps though. I have never bought DLC in my life, and never pre-ordered a thing, the very concept of which being accepted by people is baffling.

Anton
Member
Anton

That Steam backlog just keeps looking better and better.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

I’m happy to buy DLC is it’s actually good(i’ll definitely be buying the DLC for RE7 when it comes out in December), like most things DLC itself is not inherently bad, it’s just that many publishers mis-use it in stupid wars like the aforementioned horse armor.

JackieGoOutside
Member
JackieGoOutside

So video games now are like bags of chips, the bags stayed the same but the content is mostly air.

KeekingItReal
Member
Little bit of good news. Not much, but hey, it’s something. On the Kotaku comment board for the transactions in Shadow of War there seems to be a lot of dissent against the game despite the article reporting the game does not appear to have intrusive mirotransactions (I call bull on that, but w/e, that’s not the topic on hand). This is a website that formerly had people defending these business practices in DROVES in the comments section of all places. Now they’re actually putting THIS video as evidence NOT to buy into the “60 game” myth. And there’s quite… Read more »
Anton
Member
Anton

Meanwhile, though, the actual article was along the lines of “well, I never used them, so it’s all A-ok!”. Really wish more mainstream journos spoke out against these things.

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

Most of the sites like Kotaku never will, they’re thralls of the industry.

KeekingItReal
Member

Normally I’m wary about that sort of statement but the site actually went into detail about how great it is to open Overwatch loot boxes in one of their articles that made me sick to my core so… I’m inclined to believe they really are bought out. That, or profoundly oblivious.

Anton
Member
Anton

It’s both true and false. It’s false in the literal sense, and I’m sure that EA and WB aren’t paying off journos in seedy back alleyways at night for positive coverage. However, there is definitely an unspoken understanding that crossing certain lines will mean that the journos will lose advance access to the industry and games, something that the heads of the publications will not take kindly to. And that’s why we have universally positive AAA game reviews, and “opinion pieces” regarding anti-consumerist policies that read like sponsored content.

KeekingItReal
Member

I guess one step at a time. Meanwhile, we’ve still got our ol’ pal Jim Sterling.
Honestly it’s a miracle this is even happening at the comments section in Kotaku.

The last few articles I read had comments that were absolutely dead set on defending microtransactions, even in Payday, a game which explicitly promised not to have them in the first place. So… progress?

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Gamespot and Polygon’s reviews both criticized the game for basically forcing you to buy lootboxes in order for you to be able to complete the 4th act of the game and see the true ending.

KeekingItReal
Member

I didn’t read them but I stopped reading those two along with IGN a long time ago. I should give it a look.

Gorantharon
Member

You know shit’s fucked when gamespot starts critcising AAA publishing practises.

Greene Scott
Member
Greene Scott

Sadly though, I’m seeing the defenders come out in full force in Assassin’s Creed Origins DLC plans article.

El Chica Incognitus
Member
My friend who is a copyright lawyer once pointed out on GoG’s forum that it is somewhat ridiculous that game companies are expecting people to shell out tons of money for games made years and years ago when the actual people who made those games aren’t seeing a penny of it. When all of the money that is being spent on a “good old game” is going to whatever holding company has the rights to the game and not a dime is going to the people who actually put in ANY work on it whatsoever. All he did was piss… Read more »
Gorantharon
Member

Well, that happens when you produce things for a company. Someone else gets to sell your work.

To be fair to GoG, they at least often did work on on those games to make them compatible with modern systems.

A publisher throwing out a completely unplayable, lazy upload to Steam, to make a few nostaglia bucks again, is really shitty though, as they olny profit agian from the same work they already paid for.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Not to mention if the upload is worse then the original like with Tony Hawk HD.

Terry-Osaurusus Hex XI
Member

Great Shadow of War review, Jim! I have all the information I need to know not to get it till a year’s time. Impressive, considering you weren’t even sent a review copy too…it’s why you my main man, man! 😉

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

I’m looking forward to TotalBiscuit taking Shadow of War to task over it’s business model when he does a video on it.

GrimTheWanderer
Member
GrimTheWanderer

Something you forgot to mention: A fair percentage of the cost used to be for physical media. Packaging, platform media, shipping, etc. With the rise in digital distribution, those costs are (in all probability, don’t have the statistics) significantly less than previously. I would put money that they manufacture far fewer copies than in previous platform generations.

Jiryn
Member
Jiryn
Full agree with your sentiments here Jim, which is why Horizon Zero Dawn was such a breath of fresh air. Sure they had a deluxe version, but no season pass or anything, they didn’t even plan on DLC, but after the overwhelmingly positive response, they decide to work on DLC after the fact, and will be releasing it later this year. No season pass, no micro transactions, no bullshit. When I see a game advertising their DLC in FULL DETAIL before the game is released, to me, that reeks of cut content. Especially with WB’s Injustice 2 and Marvel vs… Read more »
Jiryn
Member
Jiryn

Wow, when Jim and TotalBiscuit agree on a topic and both show no only how bad things have become, but the problems with such things… you know the topic is both serious and needs addressing.

By chance, I just saw a video by TB talking about his disdain for modern loot boxes and freemium economy…. a lot of which had already been said ad nosium by Jim. As I said, when these two agree.. you know there is something wrong in the industry which needs to be addressed.

Gorantharon
Member

It has become so bad that even areas where TB was fine with it, OW cosmetics, he’s now slowly soming around to Jim’s stance on it.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Yeah it was those limited time summer olympics skins that really pushed TB over the edge.

Anton
Member
Anton

“Bobby Kotick just robbed me at gunpoint!” – Gamer

“Well, in this economy, he pretty much had to!” – Apologists

PhoenixShi
Member
PhoenixShi
There’s always no shortage of people willing to defend a game/company they like. I find it’s especially bad with online games, regardless of how they’re sold (free to play, buy to play, or pay to play), it used to be that if they had anything in the cash shop that affected game play at all, or maybe could even just be traded, people would freak out about how pay to win they are. Now games can sell some of the best equipment, and related in the game through the cash shop, perhaps have then even sourced only through the cash… Read more »
MM
Member
MM

well, *DON’T* pick up the tab then?

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

I think most open-world games are pretty damn good, though Shadow of War looks like it’s going to be a tedious and massive grindfest. Especially with that bollocks about being forced to pay for lootboxes to beat Shadow Wars to get the true ending.

AC Origins looks like crap as well.

That stuff you mentioned like the hair FX in Tomb Raider and the horse thing in MGSV seems like they were things the dev team wanted to do, not stuff pushed by the publisher(but i’m sure most devs don’t want to put microtransactions in their games).

drownedsummer
Member
drownedsummer

With any genre, there are the games which are the better examples of it and ones which are doing not doing anything new and just completing a checklist of content from games made by other developers or from their original success with that genre.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Sounds like Shadow of War falls into the checklist category, the 4th act of that game apparently has all the worst aspects of pointless filler content.

drownedsummer
Member
drownedsummer

Potentially not having played it yet I was more referring to Ubisoft’s obvious template though.

drownedsummer
Member
drownedsummer

From what I’ve read things seemed to be mixed on how much of a grind things are and that it isn’t a problem if you don’t use the lootboxes and actually more beneficial it would seem as the lootboxes are subject to randomness.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

According to reviews from Gamespot and Polygon you need lots of powerful orcs to be able to finish Shadow Wars and getting legendary orcs outside of lootboxes is largely luck based(and of course the only lootboxes that contain legendary orcs are the ones that can only be bought with premium currency) so you’re pretty much forced into buying them unless you have the patience of a saint.

drownedsummer
Member
drownedsummer

Which is why I’m stating things seemed to be mixed on the articles I’ve read stated Legendary Orcs are quite abundant and you don’t really need to buy loot boxes.

Gorantharon
Member

As one of the ways to power up orcs is dying to them, it would be interesting if those reviewers who had easy access to legendary orcs died a lot?

Jiryn
Member
Jiryn
The best part is, the deniers, naysayers, and corporate mouth pieces are already out in full force to defend Shadow of War. Everything from the grind being “Debunked” to exaggerated, to “For completionist only” and only reported by a few, vocal minority. To which I really want to tell them to fuck off, and actually listed to what they’re saying and read the evidence before them. There is a valid criticism here, and the game does gate of content and make you at war with your willpower to either pay for the extra units or grind them. Though as of… Read more »
drownedsummer
Guest
drownedsummer

While considerably less in price even Life Is Strange Before The Storm did this with a deluxe edition that contains an exclusive episode.

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

Oh for fuck’s sake. That’s fucking outrageous.

drownedsummer
Member
drownedsummer

You still get main three episodes in the standard edition.

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

Yeah but withholding a huge chunk of story/character development from and entirely plot/character driven game is bullshit

drownedsummer
Member
drownedsummer

I entirely agree I just thought I should have been clearer.

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

No need I got you. It’s like the Ashes dlc for Mass Effect 3. Here’s an important character that expands the lore in this game where characters and lore are a big attraction for fans. Cut it out and sell it for a tenner at launch.

Jiryn
Member
Jiryn

Pre-ordering Wolfenstein 2 supposedly gets you an additional Prelude episode for the Season Pass.. which is NOT included in the Season Pass….

From their sales page
“Pre-order and get The Freedom Chronicles: Episode Zero!”

From the season pass page
“Continue the fight with the Wolfenstein II: The Freedom Chronicles Season Pass and get access to all three DLC packs:
• The Adventures of Gunslinger Joe
• The Diaries of Agent Silent Death
• The Amazing Deeds of Captain Wilkins”

drownedsummer
Member
drownedsummer

Pre-ordering Before the Storm got you the ‘classic Chloe outfit’. The outfits do have an effect on gameplay, which as far I could tell was a single line from Joyce. I have no idea if she has a line for the pre-order outfit.

Jiryn
Member
Jiryn

It’s just ridiculous
You can’t even tell if these Pre-order bonuses are inconsequential items anymore…
IMHO they should always be inconsequential and add nothing to the story/narrative/etc.

I don’t mind a minor gameplay bonus, like the Ninja outfit in DR2 preorders made Zombies mostly ignore you, that was fine, but nothing game breaking.

drownedsummer
Member
drownedsummer

No idea on the whether there is a line for that particular outfit, which wouldn’t make sense if there was due to it being Chloe’s look in LIS which is set three years later. I refused to buy the game until a day after launch so I don’t have the outfit.

Kirk Hammer
Member
Kirk Hammer

I wonder how many of these shills would, on any other day, consider themselves fans of yours and defenders of consumer rights… until that one game comes along that *they* were excited for, that they decide to give the benefit of the doubt to? Then do they find themselves repeating those same things that they scoffed at when defenders of other games did it?

Amy
Member

Shadow of War works out to $28 for the standard edition in China. People laugh at the idea of paying even that much for a game. Prices are what they are because people will pay them. I’m getting tired of the AAA industry, and with the quality of indies these days I’m actually cool with spending my money elsewhere now.

Sperium3000
Member

Yeah, wonky bussiness practices nowadays are the number one reason of me not getting something. Either that or I get it used, at which point no money goes to the publisher anyway. It doesn’t go to the devs either, it’s not a perfect solution, but I’m speaking with my wallet here.

Allan Weallans
Member
I bought World of Final Fantasy used the other week. I wouldn’t have actually minded buying it new, but there was nowhere (at least in this city) still selling it new because it’s, what, a year old? Then I found out that there’s no way to get the Japanese voice DLC without buying it new. Kind of a dick move by Square-Enix to hold a language option of all things to ransom with a new game. In some ways I feel that’s worse than EA’s “Project $10” because, even though Square-Enix is inexplicably doubling down on not getting my money… Read more »
Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

Prices have gone up in the UK. £40 used to be the standard but now its anywhere between £45-£60 depending on the publisher and whether you’re getting a digital or physical copy.

drownedsummer
Member
drownedsummer

Most Switch games tend to be at least 50 in the UK.

Galactix100
Member
Galactix100

Yeah, as is pretty much every EA game if it’s a physical copy, usually £60 if you go digital.

Allan Weallans
Member

Oh, is that what happened? I noticed the price of PC games going up, which were always cheaper because they don’t have to deal with platform-holder licensing fees, and I thought they were just moving to the same price-point as console games, but now that I think about it, it might be more like a rising tide lifting all boats.

Anton
Member
Anton
The upshot here is, the “AAA” games that pull the $60 & season pass & microtransaction triple-dip are almost never really worth it. These are games born out of a desire to generate cash, rather than any great idea or artistic drive. Forza, COD, Battlefield, Destiny – all assembly-line franchises, in which any individual game is anonymous and replaceable by an identical (but slightly prettier!) version on or two years after its release. Meanwhile, four of the best games of 2017 – Nier, Nioh, RE7, and HZD – have all had rather reasonable expansion DLC plans. On top of that,… Read more »
drownedsummer
Member
drownedsummer

Horizon is a complete game and the DLC is an additional story. Disappointing that it appears to be the only DLC though.

Anton
Member
Anton

yep, that’s what I said

drownedsummer
Member
drownedsummer

I should have made that point clearer I find myself disappointed that Guerilla only has plans for one piece of DLC.

Sperium3000
Member

You think that’s bad, ask what games cost in Brazil.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

From what Yahtzee said Australia gets it pretty bad too.

Greene Scott
Member
Greene Scott

Also last thing, it’s really weird watching Jim’s stuff right after watching CandyEvie’s videos, it’s like that seen from Batman Forever where Riddler put that thing on Two-Face’s head and we see good and evil cartoons (good as in alignments not quality).

Nothing wrong with that, not all shows have to sweary or didlowed as Jims, especially if the creator doesn’t want it to be or wouldn’t work, it just gave me a case of weirdness seeing the tonal difference.

Greene Scott
Member
Greene Scott

Also, something I’ve wondered, wouldn’t the switch from big cartridges to disk based formats and not discs to pure digital lower costs?

Miles Saintborough
Member

Publishers would still find a way to jack up the price in other areas.

BAH!
Member
BAH!
Excellent episode, but with one niggle: Your final point about “not asking for high-end games” isn’t as forceful as it could be when literally every industry has various levels of product quality and pricing, and the easiest rebuttal would be “then just buy cheaper games”- which would unfortunately be pretty easy to do since the indie scene has become pretty damn solid in the last 10 years. The fact that you don’t want/didn’t ask for these expensive games is not in any way a reason for them to not exist. The better stronger point is that said games should not… Read more »
machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Plus the stuff Jim mentioned is more then likely stuff the developers actually wanted in the game(I could totally see Kojima wanting the horse to crap in real time, that’s how nuts he is), not stuff that was forced on them by the devs.

Benj
Member
Benj

No one thinks that the market leading powerhouses shouldn’t exist. The problem is that every AAA game seems to either be one of them or is seeking to dethrone one of them.

You can make a great game in a less mainstream genre or with a novel setting/ story/ style etc. and charge half the prize and you’ll still make a damn good amount of money out of it.

Allan Weallans
Member
Well, the thing is I think the pushing graphics thing isn’t so much at the behest of the market, but at the behest of hardware manufacturers. When you have console platform exclusives, or so many PC games opening with an “Nvidia – The Way it’s Meant to be Played” splash, there does feel like pressure on the developers and even on the publishers from hardware manufacturers saying, “Make sure people can’t play this unless they buy our shit.” And honestly in recent years I feel like we’ve had diminishing returns on hardware upgrades. Less and less, we’re buying new hardware… Read more »
MuddyScarecrow
Member

Moreso his point is that games don’t need to have these extravagant physics engines which are undoubtedly costing them a lot of money to make.

Greene Scott
Member
Greene Scott
Capcom for me is still the worse for this for me, they did this for years, with proof so obvious and out there that it was impossible to not see it like with Megaman 10, Azura’s Wrath, Street Fighter vs Tekken, the bs that was Marvel vs Capcom 3 that made it impossible for years not to be able to play the full game without cheat and now Street Fighter V… … And yet there are STILL hundreds if not thousands of defenders of the company defending this crap, I’m seeing it again with MvCI and that announced Street Fighter… Read more »
machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Plus Capcom pissed off a lot of Xbox fans by making the game PS4 exclusive(which makes no sense given that the 360 versions of SF4 sold more then the PS3 versions).

Chris
Member

It’s almost like the 360 was a far more popular platform than the Xbone and thus was treated differently by devs.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

Still excluding a whole platform from a series that’s always been multiplatform was a really boneheaded move on Crapcom’s part.

Gorantharon
Member

SFV is a cornucopia of worst choices.

I’m still impressed how bad they fucked the competitive scene by making it this boring.

machine_dirty
Guest
machine_dirty

If only Capcom hadn’t taken Sony’s money and had spent a couple more years making sure the game came out in a finished state it would’ve actually done well.

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