ANTI-SANTA
Member
ANTI-SANTA
I absolutely LOVED The New Order, it’s easily one of my favourite games of this generation, but you’re right something about New Colossus doesn’t feel quite as right as it did last time. And I think it’s because the first half of the game your max health is capped at 50. That REALLY annoyed me, it got to the point I had to turn the difficulty all the way down because I just couldn’t survive one of the earlier levels. Another problem is it’s for some reason harder to pick up items and ammo, you have to be -exact- when… Read more »
Kaye Faye
Member

Really, that’s a shame. I think this is better than the first in many ways, even if I feel that it lacks some of the punch that the first games story had and isn’t as memorable. But I still loved the crap out of it.

Anton
Member
Anton

Usually concur with Jim but ohhh boy do I disagree with him over this one. I found the gameplay here to be pretty much perfect. Yeah, BJ is pretty squishy, but that’s part of the design. The game discourages slow gameplay – if you stay still, you will be hunted down, and like Jim pointed out, you will not last long. However, if you stay on the move and play aggressively – a la Doom 2016 – you will do just fine.

In other words, this is a shooter done actually well.

Galactix100
Member

I’ve found it the exact opposite. Slowly moving forwards has been more effective for me than charging around the place, I find BJ so squishy that running around in the open’s done nothing but get me mulched every time.

Anton
Member
Anton
Gotta strafe, brah. The enemies have a very low chance of hitting you if you’re moving sideways. Dual-wield, use every offensive tactic at your disposal. Get all the weapon mods that either boost firing rate, or damage per bullet. NEVER pick up the heavy weapons, that just grounds you in place and turns you into a target. Doing all of the above got me through the hardest difficulty in ~15 hours with all the side stuff done. IMO, if following the above, the game started off reasonably challenging and just got progressively easier with all the perk bonuses you pick… Read more »
Galactix100
Member

I’ll give that a go. Been revisiting TNO to see if that can get me passed my current issues. I’m not a fan of dual-wielding in this though, I feel like the accuracy/fire-power trade off isn’t worth it because I end up burning through so much more ammo than was necessary.
And I was terrible at Hotline Miami.

Anton
Member
Anton
It actually took me a while to warm up to dual wielding too. What I’ve realized is that dual SMGs+heated bullets upgrade+silencers pretty much breaks the game. The damage upgrade actually lowers the firing rate, so it offsets the ammo wasted by using two of them. Plus, one of the stealth perks raises the power of silenced weapons – up to 50%!!! The combined damage feels like cheating. The best part, however, is that you can stay stealthy when using these. When using the silencer mod, they are quiet enough that they don’t tip off the commander. They might cause… Read more »
Galactix100
Member

Now that sounds more my speed. Might restart it and give that a try, might have more fun. Although that means having to sit through the fucking wheelchair level again.

Hellblizts
Member
Hellblizts

Well, I agree with Jim. This game is step down but I don’t like writing. It seemed kind off.

Michael Prymula
Guest
Michael Prymula

I love it personally, I think it mixes dark moments with humor very well, so far it’s easily a top ten contender for this year.

George
Member
Hmmm…I watched the intro that Jim is talking about and while I haven’t played the game. I’m not sure how I feel about it… I don’t agree that with those who say the game is hypocritical to depict violent victimization while revelling in it later. That’s not what it’s doing. I agree with Heather Alexandra insofar as she mentions that it’s about showing how violence is insidious as an ideology and manifests later and how violence itself deserves a violent response….BUT…. The narrative problem with this is that essentially BJ as victim of violence only gets to hope for the… Read more »
Galactix100
Member

The intro lost me when it came to the bit in the basement with the shotgun. It moved from shocking portrayal of domestic violence to comic book villainy. Before that it was really good, especially the bit where you have to throw stuff at BJ’s dad. It really conveyed a sense of being powerless in the face of an abuser. And then they went too far and I almost started laughing at how dumb it got.

George
Member

That’s the other problem. It gets so hammy to the point where it’s hard to tell what exactly the game is trying to say.

Also…I mentioned it further down but the scene also has a lot deeply problematic implications regarding the gameplay itself.

The role of player is one where you control and make the main character do violence. The parallels to the end of that opening scene are probably unintended and I’m surprised more people are not criticizing it.

tsrhodes1
Member
tsrhodes1

I’ll submit that you were underwhelmed because you were only killing *virtual* nazis. I get you. The world is a bastard, I know.

George
Member
I believe in necessary violence and killing to stop evil and defend the innocent. Killing an enemy who is about to commit violence (even when it’s not against me personally) is also morally acceptable. Irredeemable evil MUST be killed. Food for thought: If this game were set in the Iraq and instead of nazis it was ISIS, who does in fact do the same sorts of atrocities the same misogyny and homophobia and killing of minorities, would you have typed that comment? I think this is a fair question, since the game seems to be concerned with when violence is… Read more »
tsrhodes1
Member
tsrhodes1

Give it a rest, Georgie

George
Member

My question was rhetorical.

This may sound preachy, but this game is not about slaughtering demons on Mars or torturing monsters to death with magical hair.

It seems to me to be about inflicting (at times sadistic) violence against other human beings and when that is appropriate or good. And like or not a Nazi or ISIS member is still a human being.

So if you are not willing to ponder the question I’ve asked then you probably shouldn’t be posting things like your original OP.

Chris
Member

It is never wrong to kill Nazis. That really isn’t a hard issue unless you set out with the goal for some reason of making it sound morally questionable or complicated. And then you have to ask yourself, why are you so set on “just asking questions” about people’s desire to fight against the extermination of entire groups of people.

George
Member
*I’m not angry as I’m writing this, please lets just suspend poe’s law for second* Well yes I am. Fighting has basic rules. If a person is actively participating in an act that harms another or yourself (like they seem to in the game) then deadly force is justified to stop them. But Otherwise, if that nazi surrenders or is at the moment just standing on the street, killing them is committing murder and would be a crime. But that doesn’t go to the original question I asked. Put another way, if this game’s enemies were ISIS would all of… Read more »
Chris
Member
First, because you’ll keep harping on it otherwise, yes. That would still be morally fine, because they are just as evil. However, people don’t care about them as much for a variety of reasons having to do with the fact that most of the audience for a site like this is American and Americans largely don’t care about atrocities and violence committed to brown people by other brown people halfway across the world as much as they do the memory of the last time America was unironically on the right side of history on something. So you wouldn’t see the… Read more »
George
Member
That’s a good question. The simple answer is that I don’t read all of Jim’s content. I don’t like to play COD, I don’t like Warriors and AofM didn’t interest me at all so I didn’t bother looking with any depth (or at all) at those pages. That said I believe COD has faced these criticisms before as well. But…to the spirit of your question…I can’t speak for other people on the internet. My main issue lays with things like the OP. Chris, You say that it’s just as moral kill ISIS. But I don’t think that the majority of… Read more »
Chris
Member
I’ll call you that because your views on poverty and the poor, which is the previous time we had a discussion like this, place you firmly on the right in my personal political calculus. You can have as nice and liberal of social views as you want, but the impression I got of your views on economic justice were conservative. I’m unclear why you consider that an insult, govern you’ve admitted to being right of center by your country’s standards. I did not imply anything about you other than that I view you as being on “the right” which you… Read more »
George
Member
I don’t consider it an insult per se, just that labels like “the right” or “the left” are difficult to apply in an international context. “Liberal” here refers to a political party, for example. In the American context “the right” has lot of implications that are…un-Canadian and in addition, defy the principles of Canadian conservatism. But I don’t want to get too side tracked… I hope that I was clear with why this game and it’s violence need more criticism. If I thought this game was just trying to be a “fun nazi killing romp” like the first ones and… Read more »
Chris
Member
That’s fair, but the problem is that you have to acknowledge that that criticism is coming at a time when a lot of criticism of the game is coming entirely from a ‘why is it okay to kill Nazis’ talk from people who seem weirdly defensive about that issue. I think we can and should have more discussions about the way games use violence in a narrative and the way it can often undercut the message of a game when that message is trying to be anti-war or anti-violence, although I don’t think Wolfenstein is trying to be either of… Read more »
George
Member
The overall bigotry of the “gamer community” is why I don’t identify as one and why I almost never play any on-line modes in games and it is a problem because it damages game criticism. For this game, I used to agree with the position that thought that the majority of the criticism was coming from people who were sympathetic to nazism or at least the misguided mess that is right wing American politics…but then I saw the cut scenes and gameplay…and realized this wasn’t the colourful 3d shooter that my brother and I used to play… I think that… Read more »
Chris
Member
I actually think that the downplayed violence in your call of duty games and their copy cats is far more troubling in the way it functions narratively. I’m not one to claim video games desensitize us or anything, but I do find it troubling how sanitized and clean war looks in a modern military shooter. There are no such things as civilians, unless it’s for a big “shock” moment like No Russian in MW2 or the chemical attack scene in MW3, civilians only exist when the side coded as “bad” is killing them. When the player is given control of… Read more »
George
Member

Spoiler

Well the biggest tone problem with the game, in my view is not the war parts. It’s that BJ is a victim of abuse.

This causes a narrative question. Is he doing violence because he believes it is just? or because he is a victim trying to gain power and control as some domestic violence victims do? Or both?

This ambiguity would normally be fine except that as players we control BJ. We make him do violent things. How is that different then what his father did? In essence through gameplay we now re-victimize BJ again and again with every nazi person and every nazi dog we make him kill. We are doing the very thing his father did to him except more sadistically and for fun. That I feel makes this game cross into “obscene.” And I don’t use that term lightly.

Chris
Member
Like I said there are definitely tone problems in both games, I’m not questioning that. I haven’t played two yet, don’t get paid until the end of the week and made the call to get Night in the Woods instead on sale this past weekend, but that intro does sound tonally dissonant. But I don’t think the problem in either game is being too violent or too gruesome in how it treats that violence so much as not thinking about how various segments and plot points work together as a narrative whole. I think you’re seeing a flaw in large… Read more »
Michael Prymula
Guest
Michael Prymula

Nothing about COD looks sanitized or clean to me, there was some stuff that made me cringe in those games(the Russian Roulette scene in Black Ops, the nuke in COD4).

Don’t really see the unfortunate implications of the whole secret society thing.

Chris
Member

Michael you’ve been explicitly told to stop replying to my comments. I’ve been doing the same with yours.

George
Member

Also, I hope I wasn’t angry sounding. I genuinely was not. I don’t think I was insulting either.

Chris
Member

I never said you were either of those things, and I’m not really sure why you feel like you have to keep assuring me you aren’t angry. You’ve not given off that impression and I’ve not responded as though you were.

George
Member

I’m just trying to keep poe’s law from rearing up it’s head. And for the benift of anyone else reading. That last one wasn’t really directed at you or anyone in particular.

Anton
Member
Anton

….Pennywise?

HenloYesCuteSnek
Member
HenloYesCuteSnek

I got called an “SJW Cuck” by a libertarian for wanting this game.

Now I want it more.

Galactix100
Member
Having only played the opening couple of missions I can’t speak to the game as a whole but I can’t say I’m confident abut the rest of it. I absolutely agree that BJ (hahaha his name means blowjob) feels very squishy. I died a number of times because I got blindsided and was dead before I knew where I could react, and this is only on normal difficulty because I’m a worthless casual. It makes me want to stay back and pick guys off before advancing rather than charging in with a machine gun in each hand and going mental… Read more »